Arafat was assassinated!!!

[003998]

Wow....you say the US then use the imagery of imperialism and genocide. I can't say I disagree. Our history is indeed soaked in the blood of the American Indian and the sweat of the slave. But that is our history...not our present day. Just as Hitler no longer rules Germany; the murdering white European colonists who believed in "Manifest Destiny" no longer do their thing here either. They are dead and gone. We can (and should) strive to be better people.

I was merely trying to correct an analogy, not make a political statement. Mycroft thought that a criminal punished for his crimes would be a good comparison for western societies, which it isn´t. This doesn´t only apply to the US, but it was easiest to use them, because their successfull genocides and exploitations of racial minorities are most widely known and happened quite recently. Would you be able to name the tribes the Germans wiped out in order to secure their territory? I couldn´t.
As you mentioned Hitler (and lost the debate by virtue of Godwin´s law. ;-)), I think Nazi-Germany is one of the few examples of a nation being punished for their cruelty. I don´t say this makes us better people, but that the analogy could hold for Germany, at least.

Originally posted by rikzilla
But that is our history...not our present day. Just as Hitler no longer rules Germany; the murdering white European colonists who believed in "Manifest Destiny" no longer do their thing here either. They are dead and gone. We can (and should) strive to be better people.

You are, of course, correct. We should strive to be better people. Regrettably, we only do as long as it isn´t inconvenient to do so.
For example, the German industries fought a (legal) battle of attrition in order not to pay compensation for Jewish slave workers of the second World War. Every day the courts were delayed in their judgement, more Jews would die of old age and less compensatione have to be paid.
If the slave workers and their descendants had been fully compensated for the unimaginable hardships they endured (as far as that is even possible), the German economy would have taken a steep dive. Of course, that was to much to pay for morality.

I believe you will find enough examples for yourself if you think about it.

 

[Mycroft]

Re: Re: record of "continuing" clashes (in the present tense)

Originally posted by The Fool
you asked for continuing clashes...I provide descriptions of events that state "clashed repeatedly", "sporadic clashes have continued", "series of battles"......

I'm sorry. You got the same event I referred to, and I think you're putting a lot of significance on it that's not warrented. This gunbattle was a one-time event from July, and don't represent a continued effort to reign in Hamas.

Originally posted by The Fool
It is disingenuous of me to not have the psycic ability to predict that you will dismiss any events to have happened before august?

You don't need psychic abilities to know that when I say, "I have only seen one report from prior to the Gaza withdrawal..." that if you then pull up different references to the same event that I'll be unimpressed by that.

Anyway, you said I was "demonstratably wrong" when I said the PA hadn't started to reign in the militants. Are you going to demonstrate how wrong I am?

 

[Mycroft]

Answer the question, please:

Do you think it's rational to ignore my question time and time again while demanding that I answer yours?

What is your agenda?

 

[CFLarsen]

Do you think it's rational to ignore my question time and time again while demanding that I answer yours?

What is your agenda?

Answer the question, please:

What is your current stance re. this assassination?

You opened this thread to talk about it. So talk. Explain what you think.

 

[Mycroft]

Answer the question, please:

What is your current stance re. this assassination?

You opened this thread to talk about it. So talk. Explain what you think.

I opened this thread to introduce this topic for discussion. That doesn't necessarily mean I have a specific opinion I want to express. The topic has been introduced, it's being discussed, that's enough for me.

Why are you avoiding my questions?

 

[CFLarsen]

I opened this thread to introduce this topic for discussion. That doesn't necessarily mean I have a specific opinion I want to express. The topic has been introduced, it's being discussed, that's enough for me.

Why are you avoiding my questions?

So, you have no opinion on this assassination, the Palestinians or whether they should have a state.

Gotcha.

 

[a_unique_person]

So, you have no opinion on this assassination, the Palestinians or whether they should have a state.

Gotcha.

I got an idea! Let's give them a state!

 

[CFLarsen]

Mycroft has retracted that. He doesn't think that anymore.

 

[Mycroft]

So, you have no opinion on this assassination, the Palestinians or whether they should have a state.

Gotcha.

How come you're dodging my questions?

 

[Mycroft]

Re: Re: record of "continuing" clashes (in the present tense)

It is disingenuous of me to not have the psycic ability to predict that you will dismiss any events to have happened before august? As I said to mycroft...there have been no gunfights since the last gunfight and no mondays since last monday. Obviously there has been no gunshots now for a long enough time for you to declare the fighting over.... There have also been no suicide bombings since the last one....when can we declare the suicide bombings over?

Perhaps if Hamas shoots at the PA enough, the PA will start shooting back again and your claim of "multiple gun battles" will become true:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050910/wl_mideast_afp/mideastunrestpalestinian

Gunmen open fire at Palestinian ministry[/b[

GAZA CITY (AFP) - Gunmen opened fire in a drive-by shooting outside the Palestinian interior ministry offices in Gaza City although no one was injured.

"A car drove past the interior ministry's press centre and unidentified gunmen opened fire," ministry spokesman Tawfiq Abu Hosa told AFP on Saturday

 

[CFLarsen]

How come you're dodging my questions?

I'm not dodging any questions.

 

[Mycroft]

I'm not dodging any questions.

Dodge: verb: To avoid fulfilling or answering completely: duck, evade, hedge, sidestep, skirt. See seek/avoid.

I think that perhaps you should start the ball rolling on this topic (nationality of assassins) since you're the one who's focused on this issue as being significant.

I've already said a couple times that I don't see the significance you do. Why don't you explain it?

You see a significance here that I don't. Rather than continue to harass me because I don't understand what you're getting at, why not just explain yourself?

What was your point in focusing on nationality? What do you think it indicates that's worthy of comment?

You still haven't said why you think his nationality is important. Will you?

Do you think it's rational to ignore my question time and time again while demanding that I answer yours?


Why are you avoiding my questions?

How come you're dodging my questions?

That's nine different times you've either been asked why you think the nationalilty of the assassins is important or reminded of your refusal to answer this simple question. Each time you act as though the question were not asked at all.

I think that qualifies as "dodging" don't you agree?

 

[CFLarsen]

I think that qualifies as "dodging" don't you agree?

No, actually, I don't.

You start this thread by stating that M. Arafat was assassinated, and therefore, the Palestinians should get their own state.

When you discover that it was Palestinians who killed him, you first dodge this fact, and instead start firing off questions to me.

If anybody has avoided questions in this thread, it is you.

Now, can we get back to the issue of this assassination, and what you think of it?

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
No, actually, I don't.

Interesting. You don't think refusing to answer a question after it's brought up nine time qualifies as "dodging."

Well, clearly I disagree. I think if you ignore a question multiple times, it's dodging. You are dodging my question. You continue to dodge this question. Why do you dodge this question? I don't know, it doesn't seem like that big an issue to me, but I suppose you have your reasons for dodging this question.

Originally posted by CFLarsen
When you discover that it was Palestinians who killed him, you first dodge this fact, and instead start firing off questions to me.

When I discovered...? I knew that from the beginning. Who else would have done it?

You see something significant in that fact, I don't. You refuse to explain it yet you demand I make some comment. That makes no sense. Will you stop dodging my simple question and explain this?

Originally posted by CFLarsen
Now, can we get back to the issue of this assassination, and what you think of it?

I've already addressed this question, but I would be willing to do so again if you demonstrated some good-faith in this discussion by not dodging my question anymore.

I think that's a very simple and reasonable request, don't you agree?

 

[webfusion]

Who else indeed?

Who else would have done it?

• Moussa Arafat, a cousin of late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, was gunned down earlier this week, after being dragged out of his heavily guarded Gaza City home by dozens of gunmen.
  A violent group, the Popular Resistance Committees, initially took responsibility, saying it was punishing M.Arafat for alleged corruption, then withdrew their claim.

I dunno -- maybe Iraqi insurgents, maybe alQuaeda, maybe these gunmen infiltrated to Gaza from Egypt? (CFLarsen might know where these gunmen came from, but he ain't saying...)

Their nationality is very important. IF they came into the GazaStrip from outside for this purpose of assassinating a leading PA figure, then that is a totally different situation than the action being perpetrated by residents of Gaza.

If they were Palestinians (which can be easily assumed they were) --- then the act is symptomatic of the lawlessness and 'rule of the street' which characterizes the Palestinian society now.

If they were imported gunmen (unlikely) then the PA is in serious trouble, since they are now a breeding-ground for terrorists from all over the world!