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Ed Applying luma curve to photos and footage

Hello. Here are some others. Its possible that those do not react properly like natural lighting
Not my area of expertise. I only looked in to check you were getting knowledgeable and helpful responses from the several posters here who understand this stuff, which you clearly are. It's their posts you should be reading and responding to, but it looks like you've put them all on ignore. Which is a shame, as it means you are determined not to learn anything.
 
But once oddities occure over and over in every area, its not wrong to simply ask 'was the investigation thorough enough?".
There was a fire up the block from me a couple weeks ago. If you were to scrutinize my movements preceding the fire in detail, there were oddities occurring over and over in every area. My truck can be tracked leaving a location, then apruptly returning to that location before resuming on the original course (I realized I left my phone on the jobsite and went back for it). Then my vehicle travels, and makes another abrupt U-turn around the block, and stops at a location for about 15 minutes (passed by the grocery store and realized I forgot to pick up coffee, then met a buddy in there and we talked a while). Upon arriving at home, I immediately set out walking in aimlessly around the neigborhood (walking the dog). A few minutes later, the fire trucks were rolling.

The fire investigators do not know my parantheticals, just my movements. Are they 'oddities occurring over and over in every area', and should they be suspicious of me starting the fire? Or maybe when you micro scrutinize every detail, do anamolies turn up that look suspicious to a suspicious mind?

Should we be suspicious of Mark Wahlberg and Jackie Chan? Seems awfully odd that they knew not to be where they were supposed to be at exactly the right time, doesn't it?

ETA: very suspiciously, Mark Wahlberg is believed to have used the alias of Marky Mark, associated with a suspicious group known as The Funky Bunch.
 
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Grab any photo. Youll find something.

I believe its Ed Bailey. You should find his lawsuit for age and religious discrimination against AP. It will give facts about aimed st specifically the case that also help understand how it could have been able to hand pick and place photographers.

9 ticket cancels for flight 11 from national geographic is very odd when considered next to the total percentage of cancelled tickets that day. Im not saying rhey had anying to do with anything. But once oddities occure over and over in every area, its not wrong to simply ask 'was the investigation thorough enough?".
What exactly do you mean hear? Cancelations from some Nat Geo tour group that would have flown on one of the flights? Cancellation by some Nat Geo film crew? The second question is what is the source? I see you have screenshot there but its a bit blurry and I can't tell exactly what it is.

I'll second Thermals repeating the same claim that folks already don't find compelling is not going to be more compelling. Maybe provide more and different evidence that the claim is true. IDK, some third-party photo expert that agrees with you?
 
... If your process is simply you fiddling interactively with image processing tools, that's not science. This was my master's thesis: the eye-mind-hand effect. Why do engineering designs look different when they're sketched out on paper versus early-stage sketching using a 2D or 3D design software tool? It's not just that software has a particular vocabulary of design elements. It's that an engineer's brain works differently when the eye, mind, and hand are working in a tight feedback loop such as occurs with pencil and paper. That's great for designing things.

This is one of those times threads like this get unexpectedly fascinating. I've often pondered how the tools you have to create a design might influence the form of the design you produce, but hadn't thought about whether it was something that could be studied rigorously.
 
Hello. Here are some others. Its possible that those do not react properly like natural lighting
Nothing is going to look natural after you randomly apply mappings to various channels in the image. You don't get to smash things with a hammer and then complain because they no longer look right.

Here is a boat that doesnt seem to react properly
There is no proper way to behave under your wonky paraboloid mapping functions. You're just applying a lossy transformation that acts like a crude edge detector in oversampled images. Once you've abandoned any sort of physics-based approach to channel-value mapping, the visual appearance of the result is meaningless. It won't look like natural light, but only because you've produced a false-color image.

When you invoke concepts like "react properly," you have to be more specific. Your internally-held notion of propriety is not a standard by which anything can be measured in scientifically valid way by anyone else. You have to explain what you expect in the lighting and what physics leads to that expectation. That way, someone else can check your work and determine whether your expectations are reasonable and complete. If you don't do that, the answer for some anomalous observation may just as likely be that your expectations are wrong.

And then you have to provide detail about what precisely in the image you deem anomalous. Especially when you're applying heavy, lossy modifications to the image, you need to show that you can differentiate the expected behavior of the mapping from the unexpected behavior you want to emphasize. You're just presumptively attributing everything you see to some alleged problem with the image itself.
 
The fire investigators do not know my parantheticals, just my movements. Are they 'oddities occurring over and over in every area', and should they be suspicious of me starting the fire? Or maybe when you micro scrutinize every detail, do anamolies turn up that look suspicious to a suspicious mind?
This is what separates real investigations from armchair detectives. There's lots of stuff happening everywhere all at once. Some of it is even shady. But almost all of it goes unnoticed because it's ultimately inconsequential and unnoticed. It's only when something bad happens and we put the whole scene under a microscope that we see the complex underbelly of natural and human behavior. You have to resist the urge to believe that all of it is connected and that the shady parts are necessarily part of the causal chain we're interested in.

If I want to investigate an industrial accident, I might find evidence that the plant manager is embezzling funds or that two workers are having an illicit affair. And most likely none of that has the slightest to do with why a tank burst. But because we suddenly come in and crawl up everyone's bunghole, we'll see a lot more of the goings-on in the plant than someone who just visits casually for the day. You'll also see things like evidence of complacency that does bear on the cause of the accident. But you don't necessarily notice it until there's a consequence that draws attention. You might be tempted to say that the Acme Products plant accident was suspicious because its operators were complacent when compared to some idealized standard. And you might think that other companies like Wayne Enterprises didn't have an accident because it's meeting that idealized standard.

If your strategy is just to identify anomalies (as measured against your idealized expectations instead of practical reality), every well-studied occurrence will be rife with them. The art of investigation is arriving at a good consilience and parsimony for as much of the evidence as you can without fretting over the inevitable outliers. Embezzlement is disappointing, but if the tank would have burst anyway for physics reasons, then you don't need to include that in your narrative for the accident. Affairs among employees are often frowned upon in employment, but the "true" story of the accident doesn't have to include some salacious subplot involving people canoodling in the broom closet. Not everything that you uncover has to fit into the narrative.
 
A tight feedback loop with pencil and paper? Hope you factored in an eraser.

Not trying to get funny. My lifelong experience of sketching ideas convinces me that easy, rapid correction would be priceless to a non-engineer with primitive mechanical drafting skills.

Especially one who uses a stylus and tablet at a sub-orangutan level. But I think my desires are running ahead of what's technically feasible.
 
What is the point of the tampering?

You do know that there were many thousand of eye witnesses to the events.

What is there in these tampered photographs that wasn't actually seen?
 
Hello. Here are some others. Its possible that those do not react properly like natural lighting
You are not reacting to those posters who really know something. Trying to prove the same thing again from another angle is not productive.

Stop putting posters on ignore.
 
What is the point of the tampering?

You do know that there were many thousand of eye witnesses to the events.

What is there in these tampered photographs that wasn't actually seen?
This really. There were probably more on the order of 10s or 100s of thousands of witnesses, this is NY one of the largest cities on earth and two buildings that dominated skyline. How were all of those people tricked into thinking they saw planes crash into the buildings?
 
If your process is simply you fiddling interactively with image processing tools, that's not science. This was my master's thesis: the eye-mind-hand effect. Why do engineering designs look different when they're sketched out on paper versus early-stage sketching using a 2D or 3D design software tool? It's not just that software has a particular vocabulary of design elements. It's that an engineer's brain works differently when the eye, mind, and hand are working in a tight feedback loop such as occurs with pencil and paper. That's great for designing things. Turns out it's not so good when you're trying to figure out some objective truth. The feedback becomes a bias. This is why real image analysis isn't often interactive. We use in-house tools based around image manipulation libraries that implement the basic algorithms, but you have to parameterize them programmatically using statistically (not visually) determined parameters. This is the reproducible element. When you do this for legal forensics, you may be using Adobe Photoshop or some other interactive tool, but there's a plugin that's recording everything you do so that someone else can exactly reproduce the analysis steps.

Thus the first problem with this method (and most other anomaly-hunting methods used by conspiracy theorists) is that interactive fiddling engages the eye and brain in the same way that gives you pareidolia in other circumstances. You stop fiddling when you see something you like, even if the phenomenon underlying the fiddling thereby stops at a nonsensical value. You can fiddle with the luminance channel until you think you can see something that was hidden in the dark spots, but you'll also reveal lots of quantization and compression artifacts. If that startles you, you'll just stop there thinking you've found a smoking gun. You aren't thinking about whether the adjustment curve represents a physically plausible scenario.
True Story: Two architects came into the restaurant where I worked, and asked to see where we kept our dumpster. It was in a long internal hallway between us and the drug store next door. They had their blueprints and everything.
One guy asks, "How does sanitation access this hallway?"
I point to the door which opened into the rear of the mall, that gave access to the automatic sliding doors, and the back parking lot.
He asks where the rest of the mall keeps their dumpsters, I tell him there's paddock in the far back lot of the mall.
He say,"Well, we're going to expand the mall, and that back parking lot is going to be developed. You'll have to move your dumpster out there."
I look at him and said, "Why can't we just use the door on the other end of the hallway?"
"What's out there?"
"The front parking lot."
I thought the other architect was going to slap the first one. I pointed out they should have been using that door all along as it's faster for the sanitation guy.

Anyway, as a former conspiracy theorist myself, I am just as guilty of getting fixated on my complex scenarios to the point of ignoring basic facts, and reality. Like when I went to Dealey Plaza, and realized it was an easy shot. This guy is high on his own supply.
 
This really. There were probably more on the order of 10s or 100s of thousands of witnesses, this is NY one of the largest cities on earth and two buildings that dominated skyline. How were all of those people tricked into thinking they saw planes crash into the buildings?
Or all of their private photographs were faked by government agents at the drug store where they got film developed?
 
It was proposed that the Powers that Be had a few years to "collect and scrub all the footage". I assume the original footage owners (who still have originals) didn't notice that their own videotaped evidence had been altered? Perhaps "They" got to all the filmmakers, without exception, and bought their perpetual silence?

I'd really like to hear some of these theories fleashed out, because they seem to fall apart very quickly.
 
This really. There were probably more on the order of 10s or 100s of thousands of witnesses, this is NY one of the largest cities on earth and two buildings that dominated skyline. How were all of those people tricked into thinking they saw planes crash into the buildings?
I'm not quite sure the OP is denying that planes took the towers down. IIUC he was baiting us to present video footage of the attack so he could "bunk" them. But any proposed discussion topic here was never quite stated before the thread devolved into video editing tools and Randi's partner.
 
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Notice plane. Notice falling man. Notice luma halo was not removed.

Why? Sloppy or on purpose.

Here is a photograph.

I then used a samsung galaxy stock emoji creator.

I inserted the outline of the body back into the photo next to the original.

Notice the difference in the edge of the shoulder.

You can guard against it. You can mock me.

But you cant argue against physical reality.

Not my reality. Not your reality. Our reality. Universal reality. Not even to living creatures with eyeballs. Computers can see it too..
 

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Can you show me the pictures you used to check your method is actually showing what you claim it is?

Where are the photographs that you know to be genuine and untampered that you checked it with?

I don't mean 9/11 pictures, I mean any pictures you used.
 
@nt1, you've shown those pics before. They were considered, and opined by literal professionals to be not evidence of masking, and the same effect was even recreated here on the forum by JayUtah using his own avatar and the famous Tianamen square pic.

How you doing on argumentation for the other issues you brought up?

Eta: and please follow through and sustain your discussion points. Dropping a provocative post and vanishing, never to return to the points made, is considered... let's say less than persuasive.
 
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