Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion - continuation thread

[threadworm]

Oh, my mistake. I wrongly connected threadworm's description of the Galileo spacecraft photo with your photo.

Does this mean I don't get a t-shirt?

All photography works this way. It approximates the actual input spectrum by manipulating the gain on separate bands of distinct wavelengths. This was true in chemical photography and it's still true in digital photography, including the specialized digital photography used in spacecraft.

Interesting!

Flanders is still wrong tho.

 

[Anders Lindman]

"Little by little we’re getting sharper, clearer pictures from the Chinese Chang’e 3 moon mission. Yesterday the lander beamed back a series of new photos taken with its panoramic camera.
...
One thing that stands out to my eye when looking at the photos is the brown color of the lunar surface soil or regolith. Color images of the moon’s surface by the Apollo astronauts along with their verbal descriptions indicate a uniform gray color punctuated in rare spots by patches of more colorful soils.

The famous orange soil scooped up by Apollo 17 astronaut Eugene Cernan comes to mind. Because Apollo visited six different moonscapes – all essentially gray – it makes me wonder if the color balance in the Chinese images might be off. Or did Chang’e 3 just happen to land on browner soils?" -- http://www.universetoday.com/108243/change-3-lander-beams-back-new-lunar-panorama-photos/

 

[LaurelHS]

The perceived color of the lunar surface varies depending on the sun angle at the time. Apollo astronauts have talked about this.

Apollo 11 CMP Michael Collins said, "One of the few mysteries from Apollos 8 and 10 involves the color of the surface of the moon. Eight had said simply black-gray-white, while 10 had said black-brown-tan-white, and we are to arbitrate the issue. We have discovered a bit of truth on either side of the argument -- it seems to depend on the sun angle. At dawn and dusk, we have to vote with the Apollo 8 crew. It is dark gray, with some white, but no other colors -- a monochromatic plaster of Paris. On the other hand, near noon the surface assumes a cheery rose color, darkening toward brown on its way to black night. We vote with Apollo 10 in the late morning and early afternoon." Carrying The Fire, page 399.

Apollo 17 CMP Ron Evans said, "There are changes in the color of the Moon as you traverse from sunrise to sunset. At sunset...you think the Moon is brownish. Then the brownish gets lighter brown, and pretty soon you get over to high noon...And you look out there and it's bright, bright, really, really bright." Voices From The Moon by Andrew Chaikin, page 42.

 

[Anders Lindman]

The perceived color of the lunar surface varies depending on the sun angle at the time. Apollo astronauts have talked about this.

Apollo 11 CMP Michael Collins said, "One of the few mysteries from Apollos 8 and 10 involves the color of the surface of the moon. Eight had said simply black-gray-white, while 10 had said black-brown-tan-white, and we are to arbitrate the issue. We have discovered a bit of truth on either side of the argument -- it seems to depend on the sun angle. At dawn and dusk, we have to vote with the Apollo 8 crew. It is dark gray, with some white, but no other colors -- a monochromatic plaster of Paris. On the other hand, near noon the surface assumes a cheery rose color, darkening toward brown on its way to black night. We vote with Apollo 10 in the late morning and early afternoon." Carrying The Fire, page 399.

Apollo 17 CMP Ron Evans said, "There are changes in the color of the Moon as you traverse from sunrise to sunset. At sunset...you think the Moon is brownish. Then the brownish gets lighter brown, and pretty soon you get over to high noon...And you look out there and it's bright, bright, really, really bright." Voices From The Moon by Andrew Chaikin, page 42.

The explanation "mysterious" sounds suspicious. Is there any scientific explanation for this variation of colors?

 

[Andy_Ross]

I look out over the North Sea and it is a grey green colour. I look another day when the sun is shining and I am on top of the cliffs and it looks blue. It's mysterious.

 

[Vermonter]

The explanation "mysterious" sounds suspicious. Is there any scientific explanation for this variation of colors?

Scientific explanation? Easy. The moon's a big place, and we haven't tested large portions of the soil to see how it changes color depending on the angle of sunlight.

 

[smartcooky]

The only thing in evidence here is your ongoing ignorance of how photography works.

Jay, I have yet to encounter a single conspiritard who does understand even the most basic principles of how an image is formed on film or on a CCD image sensor.

 

[Anders Lindman]

I look out over the North Sea and it is a grey green colour. I look another day when the sun is shining and I am on top of the cliffs and it looks blue. It's mysterious.

I doubt that there are algae on the moon. And the moon has basically no atmosphere in which light can be filtered. And you used the word 'mysterious' ironically. Are you implying that the astronauts also were ironical in their statements about mysterious colors?

 

[Anders Lindman]

Scientific explanation? Easy. The moon's a big place, and we haven't tested large portions of the soil to see how it changes color depending on the angle of sunlight.

The angles from China's Jade Rabbit rover are similar to that of the NASA photos. Plus, the explanation you proposed sounds mysterious rather than scientific. Without any atmosphere, why would the color change depending on view angle? Be specific. Use a scientific explanation.

 

[Vermonter]

The angles from China's Jade Rabbit rover are similar to that of the NASA photos. Plus, the explanation you proposed sounds mysterious rather than scientific. Without any atmosphere, why would the color change depending on view angle? Be specific. Use a scientific explanation.

Polarization of light. What's your explanation?

 

[Rincewind]

The explanation "mysterious" sounds suspicious. Is there any scientific explanation for this variation of colors?

Michael Collins says "there's a mystery".

Then he goes on to explain - and there's no mystery...

Nothing suspicious.

 

[Anders Lindman]

Polarization of light. What's your explanation?

Well, the orange soil the NASA astronauts supposedly found on the moon looked orange. No polarization there. My explanation is that they used black-and-white backgrounds of ordinary Earth sand (both in studios and in outdoor desert Earth landscapes), and pasted color foregrounds objects onto that.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Your "explanation" only accounts for the photos in isolation and is therefore useless.

 

[smartcooky]

<snip> ... My explanation is that they used black-and-white backgrounds of ordinary Earth sand (both in studios and in outdoor desert Earth landscapes), and pasted color foregrounds objects onto that.

 

[crhkrebs]

.......My explanation is that they used black-and-white backgrounds of ordinary Earth sand (both in studios and in outdoor desert Earth landscapes), and pasted color foregrounds objects onto that.

Is this a Poe?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Is this a Poe?

Probably not. Parody doesn't appear to be the intent.
I guess everyone needs a hobby.

 

[Fishstick]

There's a reason Anders isn't a valid stundie contestant, he's just blatantly trolling and you're all falling for it.

 

[threadworm]

The explanation "mysterious" sounds suspicious. Is there any scientific explanation for this variation of colors?

That explanation does not contain the word 'mysterious', it contains the word 'mysteries'. The latter has a distinctly different connotation to the former.

 

[JayUtah]

Well, the orange soil the NASA astronauts supposedly found on the moon looked orange. No polarization there. My explanation is that they used black-and-white backgrounds of ordinary Earth sand (both in studios and in outdoor desert Earth landscapes), and pasted color foregrounds objects onto that.

Nope. Photogrammetric rectification techniques applied to Apollo photos shows conclusively they cannot be backdrops.

Further, despite your protestations to the contrary, Apollo photos do exhibit subtle coloration throughout. They are not black-and-white.

 

[JayUtah]

Without any atmosphere, why would the color change depending on view angle? Be specific. Use a scientific explanation.

Iridescence, for one. That's a pretty big one. The assumption that there would be no chromatic effect from any real-world reflective process admits a pretty hefty ignorance of, well, all of optics. Nice bluff, but it won't fly.

Further, the moon's surface contains a substantial proportion of colorless spherules. These spherules are already known to be highly refractive. The separation of wavelengths in such configurations depends heavily on the index of refraction of the material, and is best discovered empirically when the spherules appear with other particulates.

There's your science. Any meaningful answer?