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Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion - continuation thread

Wallnut said:
Being new I cannot yet post links but look up Jeff Rense and Clark McMlelland and The Stargate Chronicles ! Clark a NASA whistle blower has witnessed 9 foot aliens in the space shuttle twice !!...
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It looks like Wallnut is trolling other forums off to greener pastures. But I looked up "Clark McMlelland" [sic], and... wow. He apparently actually was a technician at the Cape and KSC for a long time, but a lot of his (assuming it's not spoofed) stuff is an exercise in how many uh-uhs you can spot before scrolling the page. Plus, he really seems to be in an... unhealthy way.
 
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Oh they already are, and somehow the sentence

No, we are not arguing that they did not fly [to the moon] and only shot a film
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Seems not to enter their eyeballs.
 
theprestige said:
Apparently it's supposed to be a retaliation for the DOJ's investigation of FIFA officials, which raises questions about the selection of Russia to host the World Cup.
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Plus it states that the US did go but they want to figure out what happened to some of the artifacts.
 
Hans said:
Plus it states that the US did go but they want to figure out what happened to some of the artifacts.
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Specifically the telemetry tapes that included the special-format television images, and the physical mineral specimens.

The latter is a complete red herring. The Apollo samples are some of the most eminently curated scientific specimens on the planet. It is likely they are being included here in the hopes they can be subpoenaed under international law and thus conveyed to experts without the intervention of U.S. control, possibly to Russian scientists who otherwise must comply with NASA's requirements for access. That will never happen. The U.S. paid to retrieve the specimens. They are the sovereign property of the United States government, and nothing short of a commando assault on the LRL vaults is going to release them from proper U.S. custody, and even that not without a substantial fight. As we've noticed from recent events, Texas doesn't take kindly to threats of invasion.

The affair with the telemetry tapes is unfortunate, but there is nothing to be gained by an international investigation. The tapes, again, are the property of the United States government to do with as they please. They are not subject to international jurisdiction. NASA's claim is not that they degaussed them for budgetary reasons, but because they were unexpected needed to record new telemetry from 1970s space missions. New tapes produced according to a more environmentally sound process (the old ones used whale oil in the binder) proved to be incompatible with the Ampex telemetry recorders.

Obviously this is just a political move, and not a very promising one.
 
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JayUtah said:
(the old ones used whale oil in the binder)
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Dammit, Jay, I was doing so well with my goal of not learning anything new today and you had to go spoil it.

Now I want a pint of whale oil. I know nothing about it other than it comes from whales of some kind or another.
 
That I knew. ;)

{edit to add}
Now if you'll forgive me I'm in the early stages of what might turn into an extensive wiki walk. Turns out whale oil was used in automatic transmission fluid until the Endangered Species Act!
 
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JayUtah said:
New tapes produced according to a more environmentally sound process (the old ones used whale oil in the binder) proved to be incompatible with the Ampex telemetry recorders.
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I'll be darned. I thought the last industrial use of whale oil was to lubricate jet engine turbines.
 
John Nowak said:
I'll be darned. I thought the last industrial use of whale oil was to lubricate jet engine turbines.
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Apparently the superior lubricity and heat carrying capacity made it a great ingredient in automatic transmission fluid. And some whale oils have excellent low temperature performance, so it was used quite a bit in the space program.

I have a very different now appreciation for a couple of Futurama episodes now, with Whalers on the Moon and the extinct anchovies.
 
Although this might be considered “off topic”, members are invited
to consider my post “Letter to a conspiracy theorist”, cultural vandals are at work, if you feel like it, drop them a line!
 
JayUtah said:
The Apollo craft were certainly capable of doing that for themselves. Any particular reason for involving aliens?
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Jay, sts60, and others with the background,

Are you in position to know if the claims like "TR3b and TR3c", UFOs, secret space programs, 'alien' visitors, etc are possibly true, or just possible? I mean could that stuff happen without people in NASA etc knowing about it?

I saw Greer's disclosure project video with so called "govt witnesses" supposedly spilling some really big beans..supposedly. Including a few alleged NASA people making extraordinary claims without, as far as I know, any evidence other than their word.

They are either for real, or actors, or nuts, or they simply believe it, nuts or not. Anything else to explain them? How much can be dismissed?
 
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Bubba said:
Jay, sts60, and others with the background,

Are you in position to know if the claims like "TR3b and TR3c", UFOs, secret space programs, 'alien' visitors, etc are possibly true, or just possible? I mean could that stuff happen without people in NASA etc knowing about it?

I saw Greer's disclosure project video with so called "govt witnesses" supposedly spilling some really big beans..supposedly. Including a few alleged NASA people making extraordinary claims without, as far as I know, any evidence other than their word.

They are either for real, or actors, or nuts, or they simply believe it, nuts or not. Anything else to explain them? How much can be dismissed?
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Each has to be looked at separately but except for the first one I've looked at those in detail and found them grossly lacking in evidence. IMO
 
Bubba said:
They are either for real, or actors, or nuts...
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There are basically two categories of "witnesses" in Greer's dog-and-pony show. There are low-level government employees who generally can testify only to things they find strange or unusual, but can provide no evidence that would lead us to suspect the government is hiding flying saucers or extraterrestrials. And there are the Usual Suspects such as Clifford Stone who have been making their living on the UFO "disclosure" circuit for many years, telling the same lurid tall tales allegedly of his personal experience with extraterrestrials. Their claims were long ago debunked, but they continue to be popular speakers among UFO enthusiasts.

As Hans suggests, each individual testimony would be more properly evaluated on its own merits, but that's the broad-strokes answer. Greer and other UFO enthusiasts periodically hold these revival meetings (for lack of a better word) in order to keep interest alive. There is rarely anything new at them, and rarely anything approaching evidence. In the meantime, Greer occasionally conducts UFO seances (again, for lack of a better word) where for a modest fee of some $700 or so he'll teach you how to contact UFOs telepathically. No money back if you don't contact an alien. That should give you some indication of the kind of show he's running. It's safe to say nearly all of it can be dismissed.

We have UFO threads under "General Topics," so I suggest you continue the discussion there.

As to secret space programs, there have been a few. But they don't exceed by much what was generally publicly possible at the time. Space flight in any context is by definition a leading-edge technology proposition, so the secret programs (e.g., Project CORONA) simply can't push the boundaries very far beyond where they already lie.

NASA is primarily a funding agency. While it has a high profile, it farms out the research to universities and the work to existing aerospace corporations. In the popular mind, NASA is a monolithic agency with near monopolistic control over all things having to do with space science. In real life NASA is a loose, poorly-funded federation of squabbling design and research centers who couldn't practically keep such a secret even if they wanted to.

And they probably wouldn't want to. One of NASA's missions is the search for extraterrestrial life. This mission is constantly criticized as boondoggle and threatened with defunding. If they were somehow able to provide evidence that they had succeeded in this mission, they'd get to keep their jobs. NASA would be highly motivated to publish evidence of extraterrestrial life.

And again, this is not really related to Apollo hoax theories, unless you want to elucidate the connection.
 
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