Anyone heard about this dude? (pavelprorok on youtube)

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Small point, but if I were as sure as you seem to be, I don't think I would be using the word "guess" in my proposal.

Thank you for good point. Actually I never use the word Guess in “real life” I always say SEE, cause I really do see not guessing.. but for the protocol used it though as you all see it is in brackets most of the times here on thread “guess”. I should change it for probably “name” instead of “guess” in my propose or "answer". Will do it now.


Also thanks to AKHENATEN for the comment.
 
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A slight side issue. If the powers are real could pavel do use them to earn money? Any ideas anyone?
Using them for entertainment or winning prizes such as MDC does not count.
 
A slight side issue. If the powers are real could pavel do use them to earn money? Any ideas anyone?
Using them for entertainment or winning prizes such as MDC does not count.

Correctly identify a face-down playing card? Even 50% of the time? Lots of money there. Until somebody notices something funny's going on, that is.
 
I sent my first propose with 3 trials by 10 sets in each, on Monday to JREF but still haven’t got any reply so far. During this week I have been testing my self in this “new way” and I made my decision and I hope the JREF would like test that proposed by me, same as the condition that would make testing possible in nearest weeks. I would be comfortable with this test and sure, my results will speak for them self’s.

Here is my new propose, that I have sent today. Hopefully I will get the reply soon so we can star tat least any negotiation and make the test itself in nearest time.

Dear Alison,
I have sent you on Monday the propose for the testing of claimed by me ability. Have not received any answer so far, and not sure if you received it at all, and it just in process of reviewing by MDA team. I would appreciate if you could just send me a small note when you receive my emaisl.. something like..” I have received it, thank you, will get back to you as soon as possible…” So at least I would know that it was received and would wait for the answer. I understand that my letters in not the only ones that you get, but as I said would appreciate if you could at least confirm when you receive it. I have been testing myself for the past week and made my decision (upon my results) about the test that would be comfortable for me to perform. I would appreciate if MDA team could review it and we could start at least any negotiation in order to make possible to have Test in nearest week, cause as I said before I would like to have test while I am in USA and I am not permanently living here and planning to leave country by the end of the summer. In the proposal I have listed the conditions that would allow me to perform my ability in the best way.
Here it is.


Propose of the protocol to test my claiming powers.
Based on the testing with 30 sets of photos (by 5 photo in each set.) TWO TRIALS

Without looking in any possible- physical ways in side of the sealed envelope, just by holding it between my hands, I will be able to identify the photo that will be inside and will name it.
In order to be able to demonstrate such abilities I need to be able to perform two trials. As having 2 trials significantly reduce stress level for me in comparence to 1 and the only trial for the testing of claimed by me abilities.
During 2 trials with 30 sets in each trial, in one of them I will get at least 20 correct out of 30 photos to which I will offer my guess. If I get less than 20 correct in any of 2 trials, I accept that I was not able to perform my abilities successfully under/according the conditions and the protocol that was agreed before the test by both sides such as Myself and JREF and that the test results are negative. With 20 or more correct photos in any of three trials, the test result is positive.
Materials required:
Materials for each set of 5 photos: 5 highly distinguishable photographs, with a unique name for the image. 5 identical small envelopes. 5 identical Manila envelopes.
150 photographs for each trial 3.5 x 5 inches printed from the files that I will assemble in advance. (300 for 2 trial)

150 letter sized envelopes for each trial. (300 for 2 trial)

150 larger manila envelopes for each trial. (300 for 2 trial)

Paper sheets with the list of the photos that will be used in sets.

Drawing book with plain pages. (In order to be able if necessary to draw the visions that I will see during the test)

Environment stipulations:

No talking or any kind of distraction with light or sound or any other ways of interruption during the test. No photography during the test will be allowed as the flash or the sound produced by the camera can be distracting.

No trickery, or cheating from either Pavel or JREF or other parties present in room during the test. The environment should be established to give me the best chance of success and JREF the assurance that my abilities are real.
No substance with a strong odor will be allowed in the room same, include people who might use perfume that has strong odor and that can cause distraction during the concentration and a headache due to the strong smell.

It is important that in the room where the test will be held, there should be NO photos or pictures of any kind on the walls or anywhere near me and visible to me.

What Will Constitute a Successful Test:

If I am able to identify 20 or more photos in any of 2 trials out of 30 pairs of sealed envelopes (drawn by me from 30 sets of 5, by two from each set) just by holding it between my hands, the test will be successful.

(If the calculations is correct than in order to beat 1000 odds and pass the preliminary test, out of 30 sets in trial I need to identify 20 times at least one photo exactly in order correct out of 2 to which I will offer my “answer”. Or 7 pairs out of 30 should be named both correct and in exact order.)

List of the photographs. (I might still change some of the photos)

1. The cross
2. Ship “Titanic”
3. Egyptian pyramids
4. Photo of the Planet Earth
5. Landscape with sunset

Preparation:

By a third party in a separate room all the pictures that are used in the testing will be placed into letter sized envelopes and then place the letter sized envelopes into larger manila envelopes.

For each run there, shell be prepared separate set of envelopes, in order to save time in replacing photos in the new envelopes and reshuffling them.

For each run:

1. Each of the five photos is placed in a different small envelope and sealed.
2. These 5 small envelopes are shuffled sufficiently in order to lose track of which is which.
3. Each of these small envelopes is placed in a different manila envelope and sealed.
4. The 5 manila envelopes are shuffled sufficiently in order to lose track of which is which.

Thirty sets according to conditions described above have to be prepared for each trial.

The envelopes will be checked for marks, folds, creases etc by JREF representatives before being brought into the test room.

Test settings:

1. The photos will be placed in envelopes in separate room by a third party with the supervision of a JREF representatives who will make sure that there will be no interference in the process of preparation of the photo pairs for the test.

2. After I am situated, ready, and comfortable, I will cover my eyes with a mask and my ears with the plugs and will have 10 minutes to get ready and relax.

After that, the testing shell begin, and one random set of 5 shell be handed to me.

3. I would need up to 2 minutes to hold each envelope. (Though usually it take about 40-45 minutes for 10 runs including brake of 5 minutes between every 5 sets)

The test.

The envelopes arranged by the sets, will be prepared to be used in test.

The person will give me the envelopes of the current set of 5, with no words or any other sound signs that would in any way suggest or define the order of the envelopes of the set that will be handed to me.

I will hold each of the five sealed manila envelopes in turn, and choose the two that I get the strongest image on. (Each envelope I might hold up to 2 minutes).

I will take the mask off and offer my answer for the two photos that will be chosen by me.
I will offer my answer by writing the name of the image on each of these two envelopes or draw the image on top of each envelope and name it a laud.

After the writing/ drawings will be finished and the answers was announced, I will hand the envelopes back to the third party. The third party will open the envelopes in front of everyone including me* and will reveal the photo that was inside. Then the result will be recorded as either correct or incorrect by the JREF or any other party who will be in the room. ( Or I will open the envelopes my self and reveal the photos).

After the two photos was revealed, matched to my answers and the results as either correct or incorrect have been made, all of the envelopes from current set, shell be removed from the table and the new set should be placed on the table.

The same procedure will be done with all 30 sets of photos in every trial, until the last envelope will be identified by me and my answer will be announced.

I would need 5 minutes brake between each 5 photo sets.
I would need 10 minutes brake between every 10 sets.
I would need 15 minutes brake between first and second trial.

After two trials by 30 runs will be complete, the JREF representative will announce the results for the Preliminary Test as either Positive or Negative.

Remarks:

* I need to know the result of my answer immediately after I name the photos. I need this because, when I hold the envelopes I am trying to foresee what will I actually see when the photo will be revealed. By asking myself – “What picture will I see when the envelope will be open”. For this reason, it is important for me and necessary to see the actual photo immediately after I offer my answers during the test.

Notes:

1. No talking (or signaling!) during the test from any person who will be present in room.

2. No text messaging or phone calls allowed, as the sms and call alerts can distract my concentration and affect the result of my answer. (The smsing during the test is not permitted either, as the sound of the constantly clicking buttons can be very irritating and distracting). For that reason, all mobile phones in the room, must be switched to a silent mode to eliminate interruptions of the testing. If anyone needs to make calls or sms, it can be done during the brake between runs

3. Any person that is present at the testing may raise his or her hand during the demonstration to inform the others of suspicious behavior of anyone in the room. However, no shouting or interruptions will be allowed during the process of identifying the photo. If there are any doubts or suspicions, the person shall raise his/her hand silently and inform the others after I have finished with identification of the current photo and announced my answer.

I would prefer:

1. I want to do the test in the United States, in Charlotte, North Carolina to avoid traveling that can affect my state due to the road sickness or the climate change. Testing should be done in the presence of objective people which both as JREF and I can trust. I want to be able to approve the people that are present during the testing, e.g. it can’t be more than 10 people in the room during the test.

2. I want to bring with me a friend Vladimir Sirovitskiy who will be present at the testing as a support.
After the test will start, there will be no talking or any kind of communication between us until the test will be complete and the last photo will be identified and announced.

3. I also would like Dr. Eric D. Heggestad, and Dr. Linda Shanock, the academics that tested me to produce affidavit letters for application for the challenge, to be present during the test (if they are able to attend it) as the independent parties and witnesses–supervisors.

4. I would like the testing to take place in the afternoon, as I would need time to have rest and sleep enough hours and get ready for the test. (As due to the stress with the upcoming test I might have a problem to sleep) For example, it can start at 1 pm where I will arrive at 12 noon, an hour before.

5. I would prefer the weather conditions to be good at the day of testing, as I am sensitive to the low atmospheric pressure and often get headaches, feel low and tired when it is cloudy and the atmospheric pressure is low.

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As I said above, I would appreciate if we could start negotiation in order to make testing possible in nearest time. I understand that I am sort of annoying and I am not the only one claimant that MDA dealing with… I am just concerned about time. I know that testing can be done in UK or elts where… but I am sure it would be easier to make in United states as in UK or Malta or Russia it would take more time in order to set up place time and find people to be able to test me.

Sincerely yours,

Pavel
 
I sent my first propose with 3 trials by 10 sets in each, on Monday to JREF but still haven’t got any reply so far.

This might be a silly question, but have you actually applied yet? Until the JREF recieve a properly completed application along with the various proofs (media and so on) required, it is unlikely they will start negotiations about the protocol.

Whether you've applied or not, the JREF staff tend to be very busy, so you shouldn't expect a reply within a few days, probably not for a week or not. It would be best not to send lots of emails asking what's happening, just wait until you get a reply to the one's you've already sent.

As for location, you could certainly be tested in the USA if you really want, but that won't be any easier for the JREF. Remember, the JREF itself does not conduct the tests to avoid any accusations of bias, instead the tests are carried out by a trusted third party, and Randi knows people all over the world. I don't know about Malta or Russia specifically, but certainly the UK would be no problem. Bear in mind that you will have to pay any costs involved, so it's generally best to try to keep it as local as possible.
 
This might be a silly question, but have you actually applied yet? Until the JREF recieve a properly completed application along with the various proofs (media and so on) required, it is unlikely they will start negotiations about the protocol.

Whether you've applied or not, the JREF staff tend to be very busy, so you shouldn't expect a reply within a few days, probably not for a week or not. It would be best not to send lots of emails asking what's happening, just wait until you get a reply to the one's you've already sent.

As for location, you could certainly be tested in the USA if you really want, but that won't be any easier for the JREF. Remember, the JREF itself does not conduct the tests to avoid any accusations of bias, instead the tests are carried out by a trusted third party, and Randi knows people all over the world. I don't know about Malta or Russia specifically, but certainly the UK would be no problem. Bear in mind that you will have to pay any costs involved, so it's generally best to try to keep it as local as possible.


Yes I know, I did apply and my claim was accepted. And they said that they ready to start negotiations after TAM that was over on 22 June.. it is 7th July now…
Re to the costs, yes I know I will have to pay expenses… like by photos envelopes etc.. and it can be in UK, but I am not sure if I will be in UK after I will get back from US and the time fly as we know, and to arrange the test in Malta where most probably I will be after US, would be difficult and might take too much time and the application valid for 1 year if I am not mistaken.
 
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Yes I know, I did apply and my claim was accepted. And they said that they ready to start negotiations after TAM that was over on 22 June.. it is 7th July now…
Re to the costs, yes I know I will have to pay expenses… like by photos envelopes etc.. and it can be in UK, but I am not sure if I will be in UK after I will get back from US and the time fly as we know, and to arrange the test in Malta where most probably I will be after US, would be difficult and might take too much time and the application valid for 1 year if I am not mistaken.

Bloody hell you get around mate! What a life. I'll bet you have some interesting stories from your travels.

Well done on getting the claim submitted.
 
For those that want proof that pavel_do has applied, read this thread http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3755321#post3755321

Edit To save you have to click the link here is the post

Pavel Ziborov has applied for the JREF Challenge claiming the ability to tell what photographs are placed inside envelopes without being able to see them.

For an academic witness, he provided an affidavit from the University of North Carolina Psychology Department with detailed information on a test they ran of his abilities.

He has also provided proof of media presence, a notarized application, and a summary of his ability.

We are ready to begin protocol negotiations for a test of Mr. Ziborov's claim, and will begin after TAM (which ends on June 22nd).

Stick around for more information!

~Remie
 
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It is 3 weeks today since TAM is over.. 2 weeks since I have sent them my first letter with test proposal and 1 week since I have sent second.. and so far NOTHING in reply even.. that they got it and will get back to me as soon as they are ready.. not even this.. So I guess with such speed of communications.. it will take really allot of time to design and agree on the protocol.. I am giving up my idea to be tested before I leave USA, will leave in August and will get back as soon as we will arrange and agree the test.
 
Don't give up just yet. Have you finalised what you think would be a good protocol? If you can iron out any creases here first then it will dramatically reduce the time it takes to agree on a protocol with the JREF staff.
 
Don't give up just yet. Have you finalised what you think would be a good protocol? If you can iron out any creases here first then it will dramatically reduce the time it takes to agree on a protocol with the JREF staff.

Well, if JREF would at least reply and I would know if they would at least consider my proposal and the method in it as possible test.. that would really help.. for now I don’t even know whether it is good more or less.. or I should try and find any other way.. or something.. NOTHING from there since begging of June when my claim was accepted and they posted note that are ready to begin negotiation after the end of TAM.. it been 3 weeks now since TAM is over… and I asked REMIEV in P.M. on forum to email me when she get my emails.. and asked to reply if the proposal at least considered as possible etc.. and I sent 2 emails as you know.. and NOTHING from JREF.. First when I wanted to discuss possible protocol, my letters was ignored as u know because I need to submit my application first.. OK. Done it 7th of JUNE my claim was accepted.. We are in middle of JULY now.
I don’t think now we have enough time to agree and arrange the test, and to make it in a rush just to make it till my departure.. as I live in 6 weeks, it is not very good idea I think now…
So if it has to take a year to arrange it.. fine I will come to US as soon as we agreed with protocol and test.
 
If REMIEV is reading this then please drop Pavel a line. I don't want this to turn into another "I want to be tested but JREF refused to test me" thread.
 
Is JREF responding?

Pavel has done his part to date, as JREF has acknowledged. Has anyone information on whether JREF has responded or plans to?

Having asked, let me acknowledge that keeping forum readers (me, for example) entertained ought not be JREF's highest priority.
-Dick Startz
 
Pavel has done his part to date, as JREF has acknowledged. Has anyone information on whether JREF has responded or plans to?

Having asked, let me acknowledge that keeping forum readers (me, for example) entertained ought not be JREF's highest priority.
-Dick Startz

so far.. up till now that is July 16th 5.25 pm.. local time I have not recaived anything.
 
Hmm, I'm hoping they are either overstaffed, overworked, or on holiday, because I don't think this is acceptable.

- Dick Hertz
 
Pavel has done his part to date, as JREF has acknowledged. Has anyone information on whether JREF has responded or plans to?

Having asked, let me acknowledge that keeping forum readers (me, for example) entertained ought not be JREF's highest priority.
-Dick Startz

Hmm, I'm hoping they are either overstaffed, overworked, or on holiday, because I don't think this is acceptable.

- Dick Hertz

Should one have the need for official information:

1. One could always PM the JREF Staff directly. (Click on a forum member's name, then choose from the menu.)

2. Or one could send an inquiry to the JREF Staff - [email protected] - via one's private e-mail account.

3. One could also call the JREF under 00 + 1 (954) 467-1112.

4. One could also send a fax to the JREF under 00 + 1 (954) 467-1660.

5. Or one could send a registered letter and post the registration note via scan in this thread.

Or...well, one should get my point, shouldn't one?
 
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Should one have the need for official information:

1. One could always PM the JREF Staff directly. (Click on a forum member's name, then choose from the menu.)

2. Or one could send an inquiry to the JREF Staff - [email protected] - via one's private e-mail account.

3. One could also call the JREF under 00 + 1 (954) 467-1112.

4. One could also send a fax to the JREF under 00 + 1 (954) 467-1660.

5. Or one could send a registered letter and post the registration note via scan in this thread.

Or...well, one should get my point, shouldn't one?



well I did PM to Remiev about two weeks a go now.. and sent a few emails as you know...
did not phoned them up… will do so first thing tomorrow morning.
The problem even not that so much time wasted in a way.. ( I did not wasted it.. as I have practices and came up with tests proposition etc) but if I would at least know if for example my proposition could be considered for possible test or I need to come up with something elts etc.. as minimum out of simple reasons of politeness.. I would expect at least some reply.. so I would at least know what is happening… like we received your email.. will concider yout test and get back to you as soon as.. or We don’t consider your propositions as a good one.. etc.. And just that I wanted to have test while I am here.. any way I planed to leave US by the end of the summer.. but when on 7th June my claim was finally accepted.. I though well 3 month is enough time to arrange everything and have test.. Now it is July 16th.. and I am leaving on last week of august.
Well from on hand.. no problem even if I get 1 email per months.. since my claim valid till 7th June 2009 so there is still time..:) from the other hand.. I thought it would be better as for me same for JREF to be tested while I am here.. as here is there “home” so it would be easier arrange test and place etc.. than let say in UK or as I said in Malta where I will be after US. Any ways.. we cant turn time back.. so I will come to US again.. as soon as we agree on all.
 
Hmm, I'm hoping they are either overstaffed, overworked, or on holiday, because I don't think this is acceptable.

- Dick Hertz

well even if they do .. overstaffed, overworked, or on holiday.. I think it is reasonable at least to let me and the other claimants know.. Like guys we on holidays..(overstuffed, overworked) will get back to you as soon as we all back to work.
 
Whoops, that should have been understaffed. I did have some wine last night...
 
Whoops, that should have been understaffed.

Crundy,
The "overstaffed" part actually made sense to me. I've found that if you have more people than you need in an office they try to find something to do with their time. Discussions break out, more and more people get drawn into them, soon everybody is talking instead of working.

But back to the original topic:
Pavel, you would do well to choose one simple, unambiguous, clear procedure. A simple statement of what you know you can do and how you will demonstrate it.

Robert
 
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