Anyone following the Casey Anthony trial

[sgtbaker]

Well Sgt, I think that most people have done some suspect-type searches that would come up in our history, but I doubt that there would be enough focus on any of them, or enough other searches that would appear to co-oberate, anything really being amiss.

Today Anthony's mother testified that she was the one who did the searches. Of course she wasn't the one who did them, and is attempting to lift some of the damage already done in testimony against her daughter.

At first I was disgusted by her obviously untruthful testimony today. I was disappointed because it appeared earlier on in the trial that she had fnally realzed the truth. But then who would ever want to be in her place? As a mother myself, as unimaginable as her position is, I can't judge her.

I couldn't judge her, either, but in my novice opinion, I think she's doing more harm than good. In all honestly, though, after yesterday, I've totally given up on any hope of understanding what's going on in this case. I've followed quite a few court cases on TrueTV and I've never seen a defense take such a disorganized route. They tend to either say "Yes <this> is true and here's why it is defendable..." or "these accusations are false and here's how we intend to prove it..."

I don't know if this is just a really bad case of overzealous reporting or if the defense is really using two polarizing excuses for the same accusation. Are there two seperate accusations of looking up chloroform (I know there were actually a few times that chloroform showed up but I thought they were defending the many instances with one explanation) or; did the defense really, two weeks ago, claim that Casey looked it up because of her boyfriend's post on Myspace and yesterday claim that she didn't look it up, her mother did? I can't fathom a defense lawyer being so inexperienced as to honestly think that the jury will forget the former claim, so I have to assume that I did, in fact, miss something.

Then there is the other "breaking news" that Cindy Anthony was quoted/misquoted in saying that she doesn't think her daughter is innocent; yet, not a single report clearly stated what she actually said.

 

[Moon-Spinner]

Then there is the other "breaking news" that Cindy Anthony was quoted/misquoted in saying that she doesn't think her daughter is innocent; yet, not a single report clearly stated what she actually said.

Okay, from what I am understanding, The Anthony parents are saying that they don't believe Casey is guilty of murder (the way the prosecution presents it), but they don't believe she is innocent as Casey and her lawyers are presenting it. They, of course, want to be there through the whole trial hoping that some semblance of truth can come out in this case, but seeing what a pathological liar Casey is, I doubt anybody will ever know the truth of anything.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

And the Soap Opera saga continues..... The brother was snubbed at the baby shower?

This is an odd family.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

I expect that offering any suggestions would be a violation of the MA, but I will say this. If you want to try and fake a drowning don't duct tape the victim's mouth closed.

Quad,

I think the duct tape comes into play because a dead body leaks 'stuff' from its orifaces. I believe the duct tape was put on after Caylee was already dead, perhaps because she was leaking in the trunk.

The chloroform is potentially relevant if you believe the theory that Casey was drugging the child for some time. 'Zannie the nannie' was first mentioned in 2006 (if the words of Cindy Anthony are anything to go by.) At any rate, ''Zannie the nannie' is thought to have been Xanax and is thought (in some circles) to have been used on a regular basis by Casey as a babysitter. The prosecution has not surmised this but I think that is because they cannot prove it. It does put an interesting spin on the chloroform aspect though.

 

[quadraginta]

Quad,

I think the duct tape comes into play because a dead body leaks 'stuff' from its orifaces. I believe the duct tape was put on after Caylee was already dead, perhaps because she was leaking in the trunk.

This hypothesis was first proposed about fifteen microseconds after word of the duct tape was out, three and a half years ago.

I don't discount it, but I don't put it high on my list, either. When corpses start leaking there are more orifices than just the mouth and nose to deal with. That, plus the "ick" factor make me think that extra bagging would be a more likely solution for someone like Casey. The remains had been double bagged in trash bags and then placed in a vinyl treated fabric laundry bag.

Plus, at some point getting the duct tape to stick would be problematic.

...

And then there's that pesky heart sticker residue.

The chloroform is potentially relevant if you believe the theory that Casey was drugging the child for some time. 'Zannie the nannie' was first mentioned in 2006 (if the words of Cindy Anthony are anything to go by.) At any rate, ''Zannie the nannie' is thought to have been Xanax and is thought (in some circles) to have been used on a regular basis by Casey as a babysitter. The prosecution has not surmised this but I think that is because they cannot prove it. It does put an interesting spin on the chloroform aspect though.

There are a lot of possible spins on the whole chloroform aspect of this case, but I'm not very persuaded that it is more than a distraction. At least not yet.

I admit that in large part this is because I have trouble visualizing Casey in the role of girl chemist. The recipe for homebrewing chloroform is procedurally straightforward, but requires care, precision, and probably a certain amount of practice to end up with even a useful product. Not to mention a non-fatal one. Casey hasn't ever shown any signs of an inclination towards any of those habits in any other part of her life which has been made public, and there isn't much which hasn't been.

I think that if she had done it, and used the result on Caylee it would have only been once, and that would indeed be why Caylee died. Chloroform, even when made properly, is nasty stuff. I've read anesthesiologists' discussions about its use, and they are uniformly scared to death of the stuff.

A "Zanny Nanny" with real Xanax (or any of the benzo's) makes more sense, and also goes to the issue of ease of acquisition. If a young adult wants to drug someone into unconsciousness there are an awful lot of easier things to get hold of than homemade chloroform.

Duct taping the kid's mouth to keep her quiet if she wakes up isn't out of the question, either. But the duct tape was in Caylee's hair, which would suggest that there wasn't any plan to take it back off.

Chloroform isn't needful to make a persuasive case against Casey Anthony anyway. Maybe icing on the cake, but the cake is already pretty big.

 

[AdMan]

The Daily Beast has an interesting piece on how Jose Baez has been handling Casey Anthony's defense: Casey’s Dysfunctional Lawyer:

Veteran Orlando-based attorney Bill Sheaffer told The Daily Beast he thinks the defense has so far, “been inadequate and ineffective.” As a legal analyst for local WFTV, Sheaffer said, “I end every day asking, ‘Have they raised a reasonable doubt about the states’ case?’ and every day I say I don’t think they have. The general consensus is it’s a combination of (Baez’s) lack of experience coupled with him being awfully busy trying to make a name for himself. ”

 

[applecorped]

The Daily Beast has an interesting piece on how Jose Baez has been handling Casey Anthony's defense: Casey’s Dysfunctional Lawyer:

I read your post too fast and thought you wrote Joan Baez!


Whew.

 

[Moon-Spinner]

I read your post too fast and thought you wrote Joan Baez!


Whew.

You and about 50 million other people reading about this trial

 

[Almo]

I prefer the laws in the UK about what you can and cannot broadcast regarding an ongoing trial.

 

[Moon-Spinner]

This whole case is getting crazy wacky insane. I'm starting to lose track of what the defense is trying to prove anymore. I tune in to watch every so often each day, and it's just a constant barrage of objections from the prosecution, and continuous sidebar conversations, then they have the jury leave so they can ask the defense witnesses questions to determine if anything is relevant, and once they decide it is relevant, the jury comes back in and the prosecution goes back to objecting every other question...

I'm quoting myself here, because I mentioned last week how the prosecution was objecting to every other question by the defense. Today (Monday) at this mid-afternoon hour, the prosecution is objecting to EVERY question now! At one point the camera was focused in on the prosecuting attorney, showing him twitching and ready to rise up with an objection for every question. He then sits back down and you can see him getting ready to object to the next question. Actually kind of amusing...

 

[AdMan]

I'm quoting myself here, because I mentioned last week how the prosecution was objecting to every other question by the defense. Today (Monday) at this mid-afternoon hour, the prosecution is objecting to EVERY question now! At one point the camera was focused in on the prosecuting attorney, showing him twitching and ready to rise up with an objection for every question. He then sits back down and you can see him getting ready to object to the next question. Actually kind of amusing...

Is the judge allowing the objections?

Either way, you'd figure he'll soon lose his patience.

 

[triforcharity]

Yes, typically, the objections rased by the state are sustained, and the objections raised by the defense are overruled.

But, every once in a while, it reverses. Not very often though.

 

[quadraginta]

Yes, typically, the objections rased by the state are sustained, and the objections raised by the defense are overruled.

But, every once in a while, it reverses. Not very often though.

Some attribute this to Baez's inexperience and disregard for the rules of trial procedure. Others to a bias on Judge Perry's part.

The latter group is remarkably small, though, and generally untutored in the rules themselves. Too much Perry Mason, mebbe.

Judge Perry is highly regarded by prosecution and defense lawyers alike. He's been a judge for over twenty years, and the Chief Justice of the Ninth Circuit for half of that time. He's very good at his job. He has repeatedly bent over backwards in an effort to save Baez from himself, calmly directing him to relevant case law when Baez needs a refresher course, which seems to be fairly often.

Perry is fully aware that every news network in the country is analyzing his every move in tedious detail. He also is trying all he can do to avoid reversal on appeal, which in this case seems to include treating Baez more like a slow student than a responsible professional. It's almost painful to watch sometimes.

 

[wasapi]

Yesterday, the psychic was mentioned in testimony. I wasn't able to watch much, but I don't believe she actually was ever on the stand, just mentioned. From what I gathered, she called someone (law enforcement I believe) in the middle of the night about a dream she had that showed where Caylee's body was, and how it was bagged.

Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter, has become part of the side-show, and there is no question he is a character. I don't give him much credence, but his theory was that a conversation between Baez and Casey was over heard at the jail, and somehow came to the attention of the psychic.

I'm not sure what to make of last week end when the trial was halted. Casey's mental state was in question, but 3 doctor's said she was competent to stand trial.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

Some attribute this to Baez's inexperience and disregard for the rules of trial procedure. Others to a bias on Judge Perry's part.

The latter group is remarkably small, though, and generally untutored in the rules themselves. Too much Perry Mason, mebbe.

Judge Perry is highly regarded by prosecution and defense lawyers alike. He's been a judge for over twenty years, and the Chief Justice of the Ninth Circuit for half of that time. He's very good at his job. He has repeatedly bent over backwards in an effort to save Baez from himself, calmly directing him to relevant case law when Baez needs a refresher course, which seems to be fairly often.

Perry is fully aware that every news network in the country is analyzing his every move in tedious detail. He also is trying all he can do to avoid reversal on appeal, which in this case seems to include treating Baez more like a slow student than a responsible professional. It's almost painful to watch sometimes.

I completely agree with the amount of pain one experiences watching Baez at work. I don't get the feeling it is him disregarding procedural rules; I think he is too inexperienced with the rules and regulations of court proceedings and trial law as a whole - and I am not a lawyer, just an observer. It is frustrating he does not "get" what questions he can and cannot ask. *Rephrasing the question* does not mean just substituting a single word within the question! If I was a juror I would be exasperated and even angry because of the additional time his incompetence is adding to the trial.

Judge Perry, on the other hand, is a loveable character, in part because he does keep good control of his courtroom and in part because he has a wry sense of humor.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

I read in the news blurbs how Baez called the guy who found the remains "Morally bankrupt," and all I could think was that being called morally bankrupt by a defense attorney is like being called a cheap date by a crack whore.

 

[MikeSun5]

being called morally bankrupt by a defense attorney is like being called a cheap date by a crack whore.

I'm stealing that.

 

[quadraginta]

Yesterday, the psychic was mentioned in testimony. I wasn't able to watch much, but I don't believe she actually was ever on the stand, just mentioned. From what I gathered, she called someone (law enforcement I believe) in the middle of the night about a dream she had that showed where Caylee's body was, and how it was bagged.

<snip>

Confusion reigns ... and rains. They really ought to have programs for the audience of this opera.

This would be the other psychic. Ginnette Lucas, the one who isn't on the list of defense witnesses. She supposedly offered guidance over the phone to help Cindy Anthony's personal private eye, Dominic Casey, (No, I'm not making these names up.) look for the remains (which weren't supposed to exist because Caylee was missing, not dead, at that time according to the Anthony clan) by using remote locating. She had a teddy bear of Caylee's which Cindy had sent her.

Cindy denied all this on the stand today, and then Lee Anthony got up there and said she was fibbing.

The psychic mentioned upthread, Gale St. John (who is on the witness list), would have testified that she drove past the place where the remains were later found with her own pet search dog, and didn't see any water to obscure the remains. She hasn't been called to testify yet. It won't go well if she does. A hydrologist managed to establish rather conclusively that the area was under about a foot or two of water during the last half of Aug., '08. That report was released in discovery almost two years ago.

 

[MikeSun5]

This would be the other psychic.

WTF?

If I was a cop and some random person came up and told me they know the location of a corpse without having physically discovered it themselves, I'd suspect them of putting it there. Why aren't these "psychics" considered suspects?

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

WTF?

If I was a cop and some random person came up and told me they know the location of a corpse without having physically discovered it themselves, I'd suspect them of putting it there. Why aren't these "psychics" considered suspects?

Don't give Jose any ideas. It is already a circus.