Any Updates on Mark Basile's Study?

Criteria said:
Mark Basile has to submit his sample with a request that guarantees the lab will duplicate the key aspects of the 2009 Bentham paper — without revealing what it is that he expects them to find.
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Then why hasn't done so? The very first thing a lab would need to do in order to duplicate the Harrit et al paper is to draw a magnet across a sample of the dust to separate out red/gray chips of interest for further study.

The red/gray chips are attracted by a magnet, which facilitates collection and separation of the chips from the bulk of the dust. A small permanent magnet in its own plastic bag was used to attract and collect the chips from dust samples. The chips are typically small but readily discernible by eye due to their distinctive color. They are of variable size with major dimensions of roughly 0.2 to 3 mm. Thicknesses vary from roughly 10 to 100 microns for each layer (red and gray).
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Page 9.

All of the chips used in the study had a gray layer and a red layer and were attracted by a magnet.
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Page 10.

Why is Mark Basile ignoring a key aspect of the paper? The independent lab should be performing the separation.

Why is Mark Basile separating chips and looking at candidate chips to send to a lab? Why has he not found a single suitable chip in 4 years?

I suspect that Basile is separating chips and then analysing them only to find every single one is red paint and therefore he's stalling from actually sending dust or chips to a lab. I bet he hopes the whole thing will just be forgotten.
 
Sunstealer said:
Then why hasn't done so? The very first thing a lab would need to do in order to duplicate the Harrit et al paper is to draw a magnet across a sample of the dust to separate out red/gray chips of interest for further study.

Page 9.

Page 10.

Why is Mark Basile ignoring a key aspect of the paper? The independent lab should be performing the separation.

Why is Mark Basile separating chips and looking at candidate chips to send to a lab? Why has he not found a single suitable chip in 4 years?

I suspect that Basile is separating chips and then analysing them only to find every single one is red paint and therefore he's stalling from actually sending dust or chips to a lab. I bet he hopes the whole thing will just be forgotten.
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Either that or he is trying to fake and manufacture a material, similar to the paint chips that would be thermitic, he knows his backers would not accept anything else but a finding of thermite, and he has proven his intellectually dishonest behavior.
Nothing but the goo will do even if the goo isn't the same red goo.
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
Either that or he is trying to fake and manufacture a material, similar to the paint chips that would be thermitic, he knows his backers would not accept anything else but a finding of thermite, and he has proven his intellectually dishonest behavior.
Nothing but the goo will do even if the goo isn't the same red goo.
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My impression was that Basile was sincere and intended to be honest about the study, so I don't think he deserves that sort of accusation. Until proven otherwise, I'm assuming he's just having some difficulty walking back to reality.
 
WilliamSeger said:
My impression was that Basile was sincere and intended to be honest about the study, so I don't think he deserves that sort of accusation. Until proven otherwise, I'm assuming he's just having some difficulty walking back to reality.
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It is easy to tell the truth sometimes very hard to construct a believable lie.

A year or two ago I would have said the same thing, what does he fear in coming here and telling us himself, or making a public statement even on Ziggi's worthless blog?

The question that should be asked is why would Basile even need a spokes person if he were truthful and not just running another scam, for the twoof?
 
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Crazy Chainsaw said:
It is easy to tell the truth sometimes very hard to construct a believable lie.

A year or two ago I would have said the same thing, what does he fear in coming here and telling us himself, or making a public statement even on Ziggi's worthless blog?
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Since he hasn't said much except that he's still working on it, it's possible that he is still desperately searching for something that will allow him to say, "I was right, even though I was right for the wrong reasons." Until proven otherwise, I'm assuming that he just hasn't yet admitted to himself that he was wrong, so it might take him a long time to admit it to anyone else.

Maybe his best face-saving option would be to just return the money while promising to keep working on it, and then hope that people forget about it. But whether or not he does that, he's had much more than enough time to find any thermite in the dust, if there was any, so he has failed in his attempt to confirm the illogical conclusions in the Bentham paper. By default, his study joins the Millette analysis as evidence of absence.
 
Another possibility : Mark Basile has moved on from 9/11 like most formerly active Truthers. His study sits buried somewhere on his desk amounting to half a page of scribbled lines. Too painful to go back to the failure.
 
LSSBB said:
Another possibility : Mark Basile has moved on from 9/11 like most formerly active Truthers. His study sits buried somewhere on his desk amounting to half a page of scribbled lines. Too painful to go back to the failure.
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That could be but perhaps if Mark Basile is intellectually honest he might have been fooled by an actual exothermic chip created by reduced iron not thermite.
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
That could be but perhaps if Mark Basile is intellectually honest he might have been fooled by an actual exothermic chip created by reduced iron not thermite.
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With that statement you only serve notice that you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
Criteria said:
With that statement you only serve notice that you have no idea what you are talking about.
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Got some evidence,>=?no... defending the zero evidence stand with projection might not be the best effort after a solid 15 years of failure.

Talk to Mark, why is he so darn slow?
 
benthamitemetric said:
If some truther has dust from the world trade center and can prove its chain of custody and that it hasn't been tampered with, I will personally pay for its chemical composition to be tested in a reputable independent lab. We could have it done next week.
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By the way: There are objective ways to prove a dust sample is from the WTC catastrophe. The RJ Lee reports established several criteria, and I think other studies have, too.
Any competent test protocol would start out with checking the dust for these criteria and thus establishing the proveniece. It shouldn't surprise anyone that James Millette did this (briefly though) in his report to Chris Mohr, while Harrit et al haven't, and Basile does not propose to do so.

However, I am personally contented that these truthers are working with genuine WTC dust.
 
benthamitemetric said:
The paper came out 6 years ago. 6 years. He's had more than enough time to outline a reasonable series of tests. I imagine a competent chemist would be able to think through such a list in consultation with other interested parties/experts in a weekend.
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He had his test proposal, with several test methods, details on how to run them (such as how many specimens to test), even quotes on individual costs, all ready 4 years ago, before fundraising even started.
It appears that he has been, or even still is, fudging with that test protocol - Ziggi claimed as much three days ago - although it is of course totally intransparent. Perhaps he is actually improving on the protocol, perhaps he is fudging it to conceal the failure to find thermite. Perhaps Ziggi simply lies and Mark isn't planning anything differently.

A propos: I am not gracing Ziggi with a reply. It would require a very elaborate parsing of another web of dishonesty he has woven there. I do not know a more aggressively dishonest person (except perhaps Kevin Ryan) in all of trutherdom.
 
Money has been raise an tests have begun by independent lab technicians.

Labs have been surveyed for the capabilities they have, including some new capabilities in DSC and Raman (like FTIR).

Staring with known primer chips doing SEM/EDX, FTIR and Raman to characterize chip composition and establish the non production of molten metal/iron from this material during DSC exposure to 400 - 600 Centigrade as well as the exotherm/endotherm character of the primer breakdown.

Next steps: move on to red/gray chips doing the same test, in characterizing composition, then showing the exotherms and reaction products.

Update July 2, 2014
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According to his 2014 update it seems he already had independent lab technicians examine the chips so what ever happened? Why does he say he doesn't have time if he has already had them examined?
 
skyeagle409 said:
And yet, no evidence of thermite was ever found in earlier dust sample examinations, which simply means that no further dust sample investigation is warranted.
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What are you talking about? Are you a robot designed to bait people into arguing such nonsense by claiming that "there's no evidence at all"? Do you know that evidence is not the same as proof?

The iron microphones are evidence of thermite, an unusual residue from an exotic accelerate. So are the other particles in the dust which require extremely high temperatures to create. I can copypasta too:

NFPA 921 – 19.2.4 – Exotic Accelerants. Mixtures of fuels and Class 3 or Class 4 oxidizers may produce an exceedingly hot fire and may be used to start or accelerate a fire. Thermite mixtures also produce exceedingly hot fires. Such accelerants generally leave residues that may be visually or chemically identifiable.



Exotic accelerants have been hypothesized as having been used to start or accelerate some rapidly growing fires and were referred to in these particular instances as high temperature accelerants (HTA). Indicators of exotic accelerants include an exceedingly rapid rate of fire growth, brilliant flares (particularly at the start of the fire), and melted steel or concrete. A study of 25 fires suspected of being associated with HTAs during the 1981-1991 period revealed that there was no conclusive scientific proof of the use of such HTA.



In any fire where the rate of fire growth is considered exceedingly rapid, other reasons for this should be considered in addition to the use of an accelerant, exotic or otherwise. These reasons include ventilation, fire suppression tactics, and the type and configuration of the fuels.”

and

NFPA 921 – 18.15 Analyze Fuel Source. “All available fuel sources should be considered and eliminated until one fuel can be identified as meeting all of the physical damage criteria. For example, if the epicenter of the explosion is identified as a 6ft (1.8 m) crater of pulverized concrete in the center of the floor, fugitive natural gas can be eliminated as the fuel, and only fuels that can create seated explosions should be considered.

Chemical analysis of debris, soot, soil, or air samples can be helpful in identifying the fuel. With explosives or liquid fuels, gas chromatography, mass spectrography, or other chemical tests of properly collected samples may be able to identify their presence.”
 
MicahJava said:
The iron microphones are evidence of thermite, an unusual residue from an exotic accelerate. So are the other particles in the dust which require extremely high temperatures to create. I can copypasta too:
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Once again, you have proven that you are not up-to-speed on the facts. You can find microsperes in a few places that have nothing to do with thermite and in fact, microspheres can be created in the kitchen using a lighter and steel wool and even produced by burning wood in a barrel of steel beams.

https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-iron-microspheres-in-9-11-wtc-dust-as-evidence-for-thermite.t2523/

Just to let you know you can also find microspheres in fly ash from coal-fired power plants.

https://books.google.com/books?id=n...pheres in fly ash coal-fired furnaces&f=false


So once again, you have no case because there was never evidence of thermite in the dust samples.

.
 
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rogers619 said:
According to his 2014 update it seems he already had independent lab technicians examine the chips so what ever happened? Why does he say he doesn't have time if he has already had them examined?
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Perhaps, he has finally come around to reality that no evidence of thermite was found in the dust samples.
 
skyeagle409 said:
Once again, you have proven that you are not up-to-speed on the facts. You can find microsperes in a few places that have nothing to do with thermite and in fact, microspheres can be created in the kitchen using a lighter and steel wool and even produced by burning wood in a barrel of steel beams.

https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-iron-microspheres-in-9-11-wtc-dust-as-evidence-for-thermite.t2523/

Just to let you know you can also find microspheres in fly ash from coal-fired power plants.

https://books.google.com/books?id=n...pheres in fly ash coal-fired furnaces&f=false


So once again, you have no case because there was never evidence of thermite in the dust samples.

.
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Fly ash would not have been a valid source, grinding sparks, welding sparks, disc brakes,
Engine clutches, and people would be.
 
This is in Mark Basile's August 2014 update report...

The thermal screen test has been changed from my early system which was a stainless steel resistive heater strip that could heat the particles being screened, to a small tube furnace where the chips in a container are heated to 450 degrees C in air or nitrogen. This change was made due to the loss of several chips in the heating process with the early system. The lost chips "flew" off the heater in less than a frame interval while being videoed. Frame capture rate was 15 per second with particle there in one frame and gone the next.
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He's using the ignition test as part of the screening process? How in the heck is Mark supposed to send these chips to laboratories if they ignite in the process and cease to be "red/gray chips"?!
 
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