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Any Anarchist in the forum?

Am no expert on anarchism, but just reading through the thread it seems to me like it would suffer from an internal contradiction. Anarchism, apparently, wants to limit the concentration of power. Yet in order to work it would need to be able to enforce such a principle. And the enforcement itself would necessitate some kind of concentration and control of power.

Limit the concentration, exactly, but if you think about it, we are tending historically towards that goal. First a few individuals had unlimited power, now more individuals share the power, and they are only allowed to have it for a limited amount of time.
 
While I refer to:
Lack of centralized authority. Within polities social relations are hierarchically ordered by the state or other social institutions. Between polities unilateral power or co-operation may provide order, but there is no generally accepted authority or world government to settle disputes and enforce law.
Which is exactly what they have in Somalia.

Can you spot the difference?
Sure, it's the same as the difference between Tuesday and Wednesday.

Now, tell me what's wrong in believing that a society can be organized in a way that allows a "star" football player and an average scientist to have the same standard of life?
If you mean they both live in abject poverty, yes anarchy does that quite well. Do you really have to ask what is wrong with such a system?
 
Ah the old Pixy. Don't let your personal feelings mess with your reading and answers. First of all, I didn't understand that about the kilts, care to explain?
No. If you don't get it now, you never will.

And regarding your label, thanks, that would be your (biased) opinion.
No. No it's not. Read the Haldane essay. It's one of the best pieces of popular science writing ever. And it also explains why communism doesn't work.

I do not ascribe myself to communism, and I do not claim to be an expert in politics (by far).
You just described yourself as an anarchist communist. Are you now not an anarchist communist?

All I'm doing in this thread is asking who likes anarchism (in one way or the other) in the forum and pointing out that (liking it ) is some form of skepticism.
No. No, it's not.

A way to state that you do not agree with the way humans organize some of their affairs.
A way. But a very very stupid way. If you're, say, twelve, that can be excused as simple inexperience. If you're over twelve, no excuse applies.

But merely disagreeing with something doesn't make you a skeptic. It's the reasons for your disagreement that matter. If you think homeopathy is rubbish because iridology is the one true path, you are not a skeptic.
 
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Pixy, Pixy, calm down. Yes, we all know that I have exposed the weakness of some of your arguments in the past, that doesn't make you stupid so please stop taking your discussions with me at a personal level. If you can´t stop doing it please refrain from answering in my threads.

You just described yourself as an anarchist communist. Are you now not an anarchist communist?

No I didn't. I clearly stated that I don't think there are labels for my way of thinking regarding these matters. I am NOT in to politics and here I'm merely asking if some of the members would label themselfs as some form of anarchists.

Please, allow me to quote myself (if only to expose your bias towards me :p):

I would have to state that I'm sort of a "anarchist communist", but I'm not quite sure if there is really a label for what I consider it would be a more advanced system of production, distribution and consumption of human made stuff and natural stuff.

I mentioned anarchist communism because I simpatize with some of its core ideas. THAT DOESNT MAKE ME AN ANARCHIST COMMUNIST. Got it? (the same goes for other members, like Wildcat). I also simpatize with some of the Capitalism ideas, that doesnt make me a capitalist.

But merely disagreeing with something doesn't make you a skeptic. It's the reasons for your disagreement that matter. If you think homeopathy is rubbish because iridology is the one true path, you are not a skeptic.

True, now, who said that I merely disagree? Where have I state my reasons? This thread is not about the inadequancies of current ideologies to efficiently produce, distribute and consume artificial and natural resources, it is just to see if some members consider themselfs anarchists of some sort.
 
There are people who refer to themselves as anarchists, but truth be told, there's no such thing.

I can agree with that. As I have stated, some humans are naturally leaders while others are followers. This alone makes some forms of communism unachievable. That said, it is also undeniable that we, as a society, have advanced from Kings with a lifetime of absolute power to presidents with more limited power and that last for just a brief period of time. In a way, that points to the anarchists goal of limiting the concentration of power.
 
Yes, I am the Antichrist. Oh, sorry. I guess I read that wrong.
You mean like this, right?

managed to get to :20 before my hand reached out to turn it off--the stupid burns.

Might as well take this thread and this example as an opportunity to say something that's been on my mind for a while.

Artists are parasitic. They depend on a more or less orderly society. Artists who flirt with revolutionary thinking change their tune. Wagner is a good example.

I depend on cops, garbage men, teachers, truck drivers, my wife's income.

Many artists are obsessed with trying to realize their vision of order, of beauty in order, or at least the interplay between order and chaos.

The ones that just begin and end in chaos, or that adolescent "young, dumb and full of come-hither" are only of sociological interest, or are briefly entertaining like the Sex Pistols. Brief, in my case, means less than 20 seconds.
 
You miss the point. Let's see, in your opinion there can't be social order without a maximum authority. Is this what you say?
Then feel free to provide some examples in something bigger than a dozen member hippie commune.

Anything on the scale of an entire society and Somalia is what you get.
 
Bush is close to an anarchist. He's trying to un-do government.

I've made a pitch for some new "isms" before; got hammered.Most assume anything other than capitalism implies communism. Both are doomed, imho. Communism has never existed without the countering of capitalism, though its definition is very close to 'democracy'.

meanwhile, social democracies seem to be doing quite well.
 
Then feel free to provide some examples in something bigger than a dozen member hippie commune.

Anything on the scale of an entire society and Somalia is what you get.

Wrong, very wrong. I'm happy you ask. How about the entire world population?

There is no central government, yet, the world (sorta) works. People reaching agreements (some of them unfair, and this is why the system is not very efficient) without a central authority. So... there you go, forget about the 12 member commune ;), the planet is the best example of working anarchism.
 
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Wrong, very wrong. I'm happy you ask. How about the entire world population?

There is no central government, yet, the world (sorta) works. So there you go, people reach agreements (some of them unfair, and this is why the system is not very efficient) without a central authority. So, again, the world is the best example of working anarchism.
Well if we're just going to define anarchy any way we like what's the point?

The world is not a single society.
 
Dude!

Two things:

#1, Epic cultural fail.

#2, it's the Sex Pistols. It's not supposed to make any sense.
A few years ago I did some work for one of Johnny Rotten's (John Lydon) bandmates in Public Image Ltd. You'd never know just from being in his house with his wife and kids and dog that he was a punk/industrial rock icon (he's still active) who was once plaster-casted by Cynthia Plastercaster.

I guess the point is some people are able to separate their anarchist fantasies from reality. It's nice to rebel in a limited way by rocking out, but at the end of the day it's an actual society we're most comfortable with.
 
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Dude!

Two things:

#1, Epic cultural fail.

#2, it's the Sex Pistols. It's not supposed to make any sense.


#1--right, it's of sociological interest. depends on whether your orientation is that music is organized sound vs. that music is an activity that people engage in. I'm in the first camp.

#2--It sounds like ****. What sounds good is good. What sounds like **** is ****.

#3--Idiots are idiots. Doesn't matter if they fit into some faux-revolutionary's idea of the noble prole.

#4--Oh yeah, they were actually talented, they went on to do other kinds of wonderful work, this was just style. Or not.

#5--think about: "it's not supposed to". That just means, at some point in our cultural history, people thought such-and-such. The stupid burns.

#6--if they actually acted like normal people at home, they are all the more contemptible.

#7--this is the mating music of some people's adolescence, just as the smell of gasoline evokes good memories for many unfortunates.
 
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#6--if they actually acted like normal people at home, they are all the more contemptible.
Music is fantasy, there's nothing contemptible about it any more than it is contemptible that Anthony Hopkins isn't really a psychopathic serial killer in real life.
 
Pixy, Pixy, calm down.
I am calm.

Yes, we all know that I have exposed the weakness of some of your arguments in the past
Yet another of your strange beliefs.

that doesn't make you stupid so please stop taking your discussions with me at a personal level. If you can´t stop doing it please refrain from answering in my threads.
Personal?

No I didn't.
Really?

I would have to state that I'm sort of a "anarchist communist"
There seems to be something wrong with your keyboard, then.

I clearly stated that I don't think there are labels for my way of thinking regarding these matters.
Then why did you say this?

I would have to state that I'm sort of a "anarchist communist"


I am NOT in to politics and here I'm merely asking if some of the members would label themselfs as some form of anarchists.
Probably, yes. You just did, for one.

Please, allow me to quote myself (if only to expose your bias towards me :p):
I would have to state that I'm sort of a "anarchist communist", but I'm not quite sure if there is really a label for what I consider it would be a more advanced system of production, distribution and consumption of human made stuff and natural stuff.
My bias, apparently, is to address what you say.

I mentioned anarchist communism because I simpatize with some of its core ideas.
Like... What?

THAT DOESNT MAKE ME AN ANARCHIST COMMUNIST.
Oh?

I would have to state that I'm sort of a "anarchist communist"
I'd really get that keyboard checked, then.

Got it. Some dark power is forcing you to state that you are sort of an "anarchist communist", but you're not.

I also simpatize with some of the Capitalism ideas, that doesnt make me a capitalist.
But you didn't say that you were a capitalist.

True, now, who said that I merely disagree?
You:

All I'm doing in this thread is asking who likes anarchism (in one way or the other) in the forum and pointing out that (liking it ) is some form of skepticism. A way to state that you do not agree with the way humans organize some of their affairs.


Where have I state my reasons?
Never, for anything, that I can recall.

This thread is not about the inadequancies of current ideologies to efficiently produce, distribute and consume artificial and natural resources, it is just to see if some members consider themselfs anarchists of some sort.
And the answer is yes, probably. But since you are incapable of asking the simplest of questions without introducing multiple falsehoods and logical fallacies, and since those falsehoods and fallacies are usually more interesting than the question itself, that is what I chose to address.
 
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I don't even think anarchy can even exist. Governemnts of a sort WILL form, even if that government is something as simple as the local thug strongarming people into doing what he wants and other people banding together to keep that from happening.
 
I am not an anarchist, so it is perhaps not relevant for me to discuss this: but I do think there are various forms of anarchism, which are at least on the table. In the past the term was usually associated with the left, and the idea was caricatured (notably by cartoons of men in black capes and big hats, carrying spheres marked "bomb", with a sparking fuse). More recently it has been associated with the right, and the "anarcho-capitalists".

From my point of view they have some things in common and some things which make them very different indeed.

Left wing anarchists seem to envisage a situation in which there is no centralised authority beyond that which is directly granted for a specific purpose: so those who say there is no order in such a system seem to me to misunderstand the proposition. The story of Cinncinatus, whether apocryphal or not, is a better illustration of what is implied here, perhaps.

As was mentioned, direct democracy is one way of achieving this. However this does not seem to me to be practical unless we return to city states (and even then existing cities are too big).

The devolution of power to the smallest possible unit has its attractions, and if such units cooperated to achieve those things best done by the efforts of a much bigger population then this might be a desirable route. This is maybe what was meant when an earlier poster talked about the global situation as an example: and it is not impossible to envisage this or to achieve it. It is certainly a thread in mainstream culture which often bewails the remoteness of government and the political class, so there is at least some political will in this direction.

As was mentioned in the "Overpopulation" thread there is no evidence that holding much in common leads to tragedy: but it does arguably lead to slower technological progress, for example. I am not convinced that is an unmitigated evil because it seems to me that rapidity leads to big mistakes sometimes - for example we got rid of trams in major cities in the uk and now we have to spend a lot of money to get them back: and the same goes for railways. More considered actions might have avoided some of those errors (or perhaps not: I am not committed either way though I think it is worth discussing.) At any rate the idea of certain things being part of the common rights of all within a community is not ridiculous, and it cannot be ruled out by appeals to human nature nor to common sense: those terms are not very helpful except insofar as they mark the philosophical stance of the speaker.

Right wing anarchists also advocate governmental authority limited to particular purposes (if they admit of the desirability of any at all). These are more akin to the characterisation of some of the posters here, because they can at least sometimes agree that it will result in adverse consequences for many people if there is no regulation. This is a fundamentally different conception of "human nature". The anarcho-capitalist is comfortable with the outcome, whatever it may be, because his guiding principle is freedom, no matter who that hurts. I am aware that there are those who expect the proposition to lead to a better life for all: the point I am making is that if it so happened it did not, they would still support it on principle: and the anarcho capitalist is happy with a very unequal society where the left wing anarchist is not.

For the anarcho-capitalist there is the problem that many of them do believe in property rights: there are those who would enforce those using private armies and police forces, and this is a way of attempting to resolve what seems to me to be an inherent contradiction in the position: but those are at least consistent. For the rest, there is often an acknowledgement that some residual power must be reserved for the state: and in that case there is nothing principled left in the position: they are really saying that "my freedom matters more than your starvation" and I cannot see that is much more than kleptocracy. Others will of course disagree.

The OP also seemed to be interested in other ways of organising society which we might be able to envisage. So I will put forward my most radical idea for the amusement of others. What I propose is that we stick with the units we have now or something close to them: and we continue to have representative democracy (because of size): but that the government is appointed on the jury system for a fixed term: and at the end of that term each member must return to the position he or she held before they served.

I do not see that politicians have special skills except those required to win an election: those would be redundant under this system.

The advantages I see are:
1. the governing body would be far more truly representative then it is at present
2. the members would be closer to the position of Rawls' "Veil of Ignorance", in that they would know they were returning to their previous position and would therefore have an interest in making sure that the situation in all levels of society was at least acceptable.

Far from anarchy, but at least another idea. I hope this is in line with the wishes of the OP
 
Anarcy is useful for annoying other forms of political extreamism (because if you have rejected most political and social norms it is rather harder to counter it). As a form of society it has nothing to recomend it.
 

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