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Antifa's Honeymoon Coming to an end

Gilbert Syndrome said:
I'm talking generally about people who rightfully disagree with the AntiFa's methods.

I'm a grown man who couldn't give a damn who you are, what you believe, or where you're from. To me, an idiot is an idiot, and a good guy is a good guy, regardless of colour, creed, and whatever else.

Now, the fact that I don't side with the AntiFa seems to draw funny responses that I must be a Nazi sympathizer, and I think that smacks of ignorance and stupidity.

Some people really do not live in the real world, they live in online message-board worlds of vigilantism.

To want to fight ignorance is noble, but to display such petty ignorance in the name of fighting it is silly and ironic.
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Who are the good people marching for white supremacy? You are moving the goalposts away from why they correctly saw the president as being on their side, to make some general point.

Who are these good white supremacists the president was talking about?
 
shuttlt said:
He says there were people there who weren't Neo-Nazis or White Nationalists. The "very fine people" line, pretty clearly is about this third group
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What are people who are not white nationalists doing at a white nationalist march and rally? Did they get lost and found them selves surounded by nazi's and then decided to stay there?
 
ponderingturtle said:
Who are the good people marching for white supremacy? You are moving the goalposts away from why they correctly saw the president as being on their side, to make some general point.

Who are these good white supremacists the president was talking about?
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How does this reflect the post that you were responding to? You oddly tell me that I'm moving the goalposts when that is literally what you've just done by ignoring everything I typed to ask me who are the good people marching for white supremacy? That's certainly strange, and indicative of someone shifting the conversation because they didn't know how to reason with what was said, and what was said, as you can see, was that not everyone opposing such silly and ironic displays of violence is supporting the "opposite team", and that labeling people who do not agree with ignorance and violence (just because the people doing it are on the left) as Nazi's, is plainly ridiculous and naive.
 
ponderingturtle said:
What are people who are not white nationalists doing at a white nationalist march and rally? Did they get lost and found them selves surounded by nazi's and then decided to stay there?
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The press? You know, the ones that the BAMN and Antifa attacked in Berkeley this last weekend and which is the subject of this thread?
 
Gilbert Syndrome said:
How does this reflect the post that you were responding to? You oddly tell me that I'm moving the goalposts when that is literally what you've just done by ignoring everything I typed to ask me who are the good people marching for white supremacy? That's certainly strange, and indicative of someone shifting the conversation because they didn't know how to reason with what was said, and what was said, as you can see, was that not everyone opposing such silly and ironic displays of violence is supporting the "opposite team", and that labeling people who do not agree with ignorance and violence (just because the people doing it are on the left) as Nazi's, is plainly ridiculous and naive.
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I have been talking about how they know trump is on their side. A large part of that is his insistence that there are many good people on the side of white nationalism. You say they shouldn't take that as an endorsement, but the good people on both sides is clear. So are these good people marching in white nationalist marches?
 
The Big Dog said:
It is actually worse, because this weekend the main targets of the Antifa/Black block were not fascists, but rather were journalists and photographers in particular.
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It's sad, because lots of unsuspecting people tend to become involved in these displays of violence. The damage done in the areas these things take place is often overlooked, and paid for by decent people.

So, it's a case of people wanting to support their community, by ******** all over it and creating trouble for its resources.

Something I saw not long after Trump got into office, was anti-Trump protesters spitting on Trump-supporters... I mean, think about that for a second. These are highly emotional and hypocritical people who think they're being noble.

Most of them are kids who want to rebel, so it's not surprising to see a lot of their odd actions that they display.
 
The Big Dog said:
The press? You know, the ones that the BAMN and Antifa attacked in Berkeley this last weekend and which is the subject of this thread?
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The quote was that there were fine people "on both sides". That can't possibly be referring to the press for at least two important reasons.

1) The press is not on a side simply by virtue of standing near someone.

2) This same president has already called that same press "the enemy of the american people".

So, I think you know exactly who he meant by "fine people" and you're just trying to obfuscate.
 
shuttlt said:
He says there were people there who weren't Neo-Nazis or White Nationalists. The "very fine people" line, pretty clearly is about this third group. One could argue that he is wrong that such a third group existed. Rather than "not specifically including" Nazis in his "white supremacists are good people" comment... he pretty clearly excludes both Nazis and white supremacists. It's stuff like this that has caused me to stop believing my own side. The damn election was full of it.

Incidentally, you equivocate between the two sentences in your post.... in the first you are talking about the good people being on the side of white supremacists. I am not clear in what sense you mean this, presumably these people aren't themselves white supremacists? In your second sentence the good people are now white supremacists. This hardly matters though.
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Some people deserve to be given the benefit of the doubt, and their words parsed carefully. Trump is not one of those people.
 
ponderingturtle said:
I have been talking about how they know trump is on their side. A large part of that is his insistence that there are many good people on the side of white nationalism. You say they shouldn't take that as an endorsement, but the good people on both sides is clear. So are these good people marching in white nationalist marches?
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Why did you respond to my post which was unrelated to what you went on to discuss, ignore what I typed, and then asked me a totally odd question?

Who have I spoken about as being "good" on any side of the equation? You seem to have this strange inability to read what a person types and respond to what he's posted, instead choosing to ask a question that has nothing to do with what they said, and ironically telling them that they're moving goal-posts.
 
ponderingturtle said:
What are people who are not white nationalists doing at a white nationalist march and rally? Did they get lost and found them selves surounded by nazi's and then decided to stay there?
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The Big Dog said:
The press? You know, the ones that the BAMN and Antifa attacked in Berkeley this last weekend and which is the subject of this thread?
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Cavemonster said:
The quote was that there were fine people "on both sides". That can't possibly be referring to the press for at least two important reasons.

1) The press is not on a side simply by virtue of standing near someone.

2) This same president has already called that same press "the enemy of the american people".

So, I think you know exactly who he meant by "fine people" and you're just trying to obfuscate.
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I have posted the question that I was answering and look forward to your prompt and certainly good natured retraction.
 
The Big Dog said:
I have posted the question that I was answering and look forward to your prompt and certainly good natured retraction.
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You very conveniently left out the post before that which ponderingturtle was responding to which set the context for the question which was asked of shutttit and which you chose to answer.

shuttlt said:
He says there were people there who weren't Neo-Nazis or White Nationalists. The "very fine people" line, pretty clearly is about this third group.
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I look forward to your prompt and certainly good natured retraction.
 
Cavemonster said:
You very conveniently left out the post before that which ponderingturtle was responding to which set the context for the question which was asked of shutttit and which you chose to answer.
I look forward to your prompt and certainly good natured retraction.
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Curious, that does not seem to be a retraction at all, rather it is a profound movement of the goalposts.

The question was asked:

"What are people who are not white nationalists doing at a white nationalist march and rally? Did they get lost and found them selves surounded by nazi's and then decided to stay there?"

The answer, factually, timely and 100% responsive answer was given:

"The press? You know, the ones that the BAMN and Antifa attacked in Berkeley this last weekend and which is the subject of this thread?"

And curiously you see fit to ignore the answer, factually, timely and 100% responsive answer, and chide me for answering the question in a factually, timely and 100% responsive way.

Any comments about the Antifa/Black Block attacking the press and photographers last weekend?
 
The media's wide-spread and relentless attack of Trump's position of the events that took place in Charlottesville is unfortunate because the media's message doesn't help foster progress in the direction that most citizens desire. Trump condemning hate on both sides was appropriate. It gives me hope that more people are finally coming around to this.

ponderingturtle said:
They got the message clearly. They have always gotten the messages Trump has been sending them clearly. There after all are plenty of people at his rallies using nazi slogans. They are a core part of the trump base.

...
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I keep reading messages of this sort quoted as if it is truth.Current estimates are that there are 100,000 white supremacist in the US. Trump received 62 million votes. White supremacists accounted for .001% of the votes that Trump received. Such a minuscule figure can not be considered a base or core. Until we stop generalizing and blaming the individuals who supported Trump as evil, ignorant, or worthless, it will be difficult for society to communicate and solve the challenges we face as a nation.
 
Fudbucker said:
Some people deserve to be given the benefit of the doubt, and their words parsed carefully. Trump is not one of those people.
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It's not a question of "passing carefully". He didn't say the things being claimed. Saying he said white supremacists were good guys is as near to a lie as makes no difference. This is why people find his position on CNN vaguely plausible.
 
ServiceSoon said:
The media's wide-spread and relentless attack of Trump's position of the events that took place in Charlottesville is unfortunate because the media's message doesn't help foster progress in the direction that most citizens desire. Trump condemning hate on both sides was appropriate. It gives me hope that more people are finally coming around to this.

I keep reading messages of this sort quoted as if it is truth.Current estimates are that there are 100,000 white supremacist in the US. Trump received 62 million votes. White supremacists accounted for .001% of the votes that Trump received. Such a minuscule figure can not be considered a base or core. Until we stop generalizing and blaming the individuals who supported Trump as evil, ignorant, or worthless, it will be difficult for society to communicate and solve the challenges we face as a nation.
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Funny, I've come to the opposite conclusion: after Access Hollywood, after telling little girls he would date them, after Charlottesville, after a hundred other things... anybody who still supports Trump is either an idiot, or a vile human being (or, in Trump's case, both).
 
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