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ANTI-WAR OR ANTI-U.S.?

Tony

Penultimate Amazing
Joined
Mar 5, 2003
Messages
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http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/69969.htm full article



March 5, 2003 -- 'THE rebirth of the peace movement." This is how sections of the Western media describe the marches that attracted 30 million people in some 600 cities, in 25 countries, across the globe in recent weeks.

Last week, a group of "peaceniks" gathered in London to discuss ways of nursing the "reborn" child into adulthood. By coincidence, today marks the 50th anniversary of Josef Stalin's death.

The Soviet dictator was the father of the first "peace movement," which for years served as an instrument of the Kremlin's global policy.

Stalin's "peace movement" was launched in 1946 at a time when he had not yet developed a nuclear arsenal and was thus vulnerable to a U.S. nuclear attack. Stalin also needed time to consolidate his hold on his newly conquered empire in eastern and central Europe while snatching chunks of territory in Iran.

Pablo Picasso, a "fellow traveler" with the French Communist Party, designed the famous dove of peace as the emblem of the movement. French poet Paul Eluard, another fellow traveler, composed an ode inspired by Stalin. The "peaceniks" were told to wear white shirts, release white doves during their demonstrations and shake their clenched fists against "imperialists and revanchistes."

Soon it became clear that the "peace movement" was not opposed to all wars, but only to those that threatened the U.S.S.R., its allies and its satellites.

For example, the peaceniks did not object to Stalin's decision to keep the entire Chechen nation in exile in Siberia. The peaceniks did not march to ask Stalin to withdraw his forces from Iranian Azerbaijan and Kurdistan. When Stalin annexed 15 percent of Finland's territory, none of the peaceniks protested.

Neither did they march when the Soviets annexed the Baltic states. Nor did they grumble when Soviet tanks rolled into Warsaw and Budapest, and a decade later also in Prague. But when America led a coalition under a U.N. mandate to prevent North Korean Communists from conquering the south, peaceniks were on the march everywhere.

The movement targeted Western democracies and sought to weaken their resolve against the Soviet threat.

Over the years nobody marched against any of the client regimes of the Soviet Union that engaged in numerous wars, including against their own people.

The wars that China's Communist regime waged against the peoples of Manchuria, Tibet, East Turkestan and Inner Mongolia, lands that were eventually annexed and subjected to "ethnic cleansing," provoked no protest marches. Even when China attacked India and grabbed Indian territories the size of England, the peace movement did not budge.

In the 1960s the movement transformed itself into the campaign for unilateral nuclear disarmament. Here, unilateral meant that only the Western powers had to give up their arsenal, thus giving the Soviets a monopoly on nuclear weapons.

The peaceniks spent much of the '60s opposing U.S. intervention in Vietnam.

The 1980s gave them a new lease on life, as they focused on opposing American Pershing missiles in Western Europe.

The Pershings represented a response to Soviet SS-20 missiles that had already been stationed in central Europe and aimed at Western European capitals. But the peaceniks never asked for both the Pershings and the SS-20s to be withdrawn, only the American missiles.

President Ronald Reagan's proposal that both the SS-20s and the Pershings be withdrawn was attacked and ridiculed by the peaceniks as "an American Imperialist trick." Francois Mitterrand, then France's Socialist president, put it this way: "The missiles are in the East but the peaceniks are in the West!"

No peacenik, not even Joschka Fischer, now Germany's foreign minister, marched in support of tearing down the Berlin Wall and allowing the German nation to regain its unity.

All that is now history. The "evil empire" of communism has gone for good, but the deep anti-West sentiments that it promoted over the decades remains.

It is this anti-West, more specifically anti-American, sentiment that provides the glue of the new peace movement.

Last month, the British daily The Guardian asked a number of peaceniks to explain why they opposed the use of force to liberate Iraq?

The main reason they felt they had to support Saddam Hussein was that he was disliked by the United States.

This article reveals the true motives of the bedwetting "peace-niks".
 
Last week, a group of "peaceniks" gathered in London to discuss ways of nursing the "reborn" child into adulthood. By coincidence, today marks the 50th anniversary of Josef Stalin's death.

doh, i warned them about that, how obvious can you get. But would they listen to me, oh nooo.
 
Tony said:
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/69969.htm full article

This article reveals the true motives of the bedwetting "peace-niks".
Tony,

Can you clarify who these peace-niks are? I'm unclear as to whether you feel that everyone who opposes the war is a secret Stalinist or whether this is a small hard-core portion of the anti-war people?

I know lots of people who oppose the war (let's face it, they are in the majority in Europe) but none of them appear to be sympathetic to Stalin and few are especially anti-US (lots of people think the current administration is not that great, but that's not the same as being anti-American).

You have included one criterion to allow us to spot them - apparently they all wet the bed.
 
I think that may be relevant for a significant portion of european sentiment. However, here in the US I think it is a different story.

neo-anarchists

George Bush is the biggest symbol of the establishment to ever be in the office. Oil friends, father of a former pres and cia head, cabinet full of establishment bigwigs, etc, etc.

He drives these people nuts.

Notice, these sorts of people weren't protesting Kosovo where you had the little boy from Hope Arkansas in charge. Bill Clinton's service as governer of state nobody cares about did him a great service as he was not looked at as a member of the establishment. He was gonna cut the big defense budget, play his sax, and get rid of the reagan/bush era. Kosovo came and went with nary a whimper.

Now look at the Iraq situation. People acting like fools in several US cities. You look at their credos and signs and you can tell there is something that isnt genuine. I think that this war is the issue they have been waiting for to pounce on Bush for.

Who are the neo-anarchists? Too lazy and too apathetic to be really effective, they only act out when it might get caught on TV.
 
Re: Re: ANTI-WAR OR ANTI-U.S.?

iain said:
Tony,

Can you clarify who these peace-niks are?

The peace-niks are the peace-at-all-costs types. The kind that would rather live, or condemn other people to live under tyranny and/or oppression, than fight for freedom.

I'm unclear as to whether you feel that everyone who opposes the war is a secret Stalinist or whether this is a small hard-core portion of the anti-war people?

It has been proven that the organizers of the so called "anti-war" protests are hard-core communists. Everyone else is either a peace-nik, useful idiot, bush-hater or america-hater.

You have included one criterion to allow us to spot them - apparently they all wet the bed.

laugh.gif
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Re: Re: Re: ANTI-WAR OR ANTI-U.S.?

Tony said:


The peace-niks are the peace-at-all-costs types. The kind that would rather live, or condemn other people to live under tyranny and/or oppression, than fight for freedom.

It has been proven that the organizers of the so called "anti-war" protests are hard-core communists. Everyone else is either a peace-nik, useful idiot, bush-hater or america-hater.
Thanks Tony,

A couple more questions if you don't mind.

- When you say that it has been proven the protest organisers are hard core communists, could you give us some idea of the nature of this proof and where we can find it?

- Are you saying that there are no valid reasons to oppose war with Iraq and that everyone opposed to war falls into one of your categories?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: ANTI-WAR OR ANTI-U.S.?

iain said:



- When you say that it has been proven the protest organisers are hard core communists, could you give us some idea of the nature of this proof and where we can find it?

I cant find an article right now. But from what I remember off the top of my head, is that the group "International ANSWER" is a front group for the World Workers Party. The World Workers Party is a group that split with the communist party in 1956 (or was it '58?) after the Soviet invasion of Hungary. Ill try to find something concrete and post it later on today or tonight (houston time).

- Are you saying that there are no valid reasons to oppose war with Iraq and that everyone opposed to war falls into one of your categories?

The only valid reason to oppose the war, is the concern that the war in Iraq will further distablize the Middle East. That is the point that had me sitting on the fence for a while.
 
I think you are a little bit confused, Tony.
The protest you are speaking of was the peace rally in San Francisco... and guess what, that one went by completely peacefully. because the police did NOT escalate the conflict.
 
blackpriester said:
I think you are a little bit confused, Tony.
The protest you are speaking of was the peace rally in San Francisco... and guess what, that one went by completely peacefully. because the police did NOT escalate the conflict.

Huh? Im not speaking of any particular protest, Im talking about the organizers.
 
I mean this one:

Originally posted by iain



- When you say that it has been proven the protest organisers are hard core communists, could you give us some idea of the nature of this proof and where we can find it?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I cant find an article right now. But from what I remember off the top of my head, is that the group "International ANSWER" is a front group for the World Workers Party. The World Workers Party is a group that split with the communist party in 1956 (or was it '58?) after the Soviet invasion of Hungary. Ill try to find something concrete and post it later on today or tonight (houston time).

Or are you saying that EVERY peace protest is organized by ANSWER?
 
blackpriester said:
I mean this one:

Or are you saying that EVERY peace protest is organized by ANSWER?

The big protests were organized by answer, and they are one of the dominate forces behind the so-called "peace" movement.
 
Tony said:


The big protests were organized by answer, and they are one of the dominate forces behind the so-called "peace" movement.

Great claims. Since you come to the JREF web site you probably are aware that you need to back your claims up, right? So please do so now.
 
Rusty_the_boy_robot said:


Great claims. Since you come to the JREF web site you probably are aware that you need to back your claims up, right? So please do so now.

You could check out thier website. http://www.internationalanswer.org/campaigns/resources/index.html Other than that I refer you to:

I cant find an article right now. But from what I remember off the top of my head, is that the group "International ANSWER" is a front group for the World Workers Party. The World Workers Party is a group that split with the communist party in 1956 (or was it '58?) after the Soviet invasion of Hungary. Ill try to find something concrete and post it later on today or tonight (houston time).

I guess you'll have to hurry-up and wait. :D
 
Tony said:


You could check out thier website. http://www.internationalanswer.org/campaigns/resources/index.html Other than that I refer you to:



I guess you'll have to hurry-up and wait. :D

...and those were execatly what I was referring to when I told you that THE SAN FRACISCO protests were (among other parties) organized by ANSWER, but i never heard about the Oakland ones being ANSWER-driven (and those are the ones we talk about here).

I believe (speculation on my part, I admit), that you got your info on this protest from the http://www.protestwarrior.com website. If you search it, you will find NO mentioning of the Oakland protests being organized by ANSWER. neither will you find such references on the ANSWER website, obviously the first source to check for such...

Cheers,
- Ashcroft's good twin
 
I know there are all kinds of people that protest the war.

However, in my city we had traffic blocked by protesters who laid down in the road and did other things of that matter. When I finally got up to them after waiting a long time, I was surprised to see how many of them had signs that had nothing to do with the war.

"Free Mumia"
(Don't get me started on that one.)

"Fight Globalization"

"End embargo of Cuba"

"Destroy Corporate Power"

etc.

I wonder if many of these anti-war protests lose their focus because of all the other causes.
 
blackpriester said:


...and those were execatly what I was referring to when I told you that THE SAN FRACISCO protests were (among other parties) organized by ANSWER, but i never heard about the Oakland ones being ANSWER-driven (and those are the ones we talk about here).

I believe (speculation on my part, I admit), that you got your info on this protest from the http://www.protestwarrior.com website. If you search it, you will find NO mentioning of the Oakland protests being organized by ANSWER. neither will you find such references on the ANSWER website, obviously the first source to check for such...

Cheers,
- Ashcroft's good twin

I think you are getting your threads mixed up. :p This thread is about wheather the protesters are anti-war or anti-american.
 
Mike B. said:
I know there are all kinds of people that protest the war.

However, in my city we had traffic blocked by protesters who laid down in the road and did other things of that matter. When I finally got up to them after waiting a long time, I was surprised to see how many of them had signs that had nothing to do with the war.

"Free Mumia"
(Don't get me started on that one.)

"Fight Globalization"

"End embargo of Cuba"

"Destroy Corporate Power"

etc.

I wonder if many of these anti-war protests lose their focus because of all the other causes.


unfortunately they do :rolleyes: Don't judge the cause by the nutcases...
 
Tony said:


I think you are getting your threads mixed up. :p This thread is about wheather the protesters are anti-war or anti-american.

Oops... sorry sweetheart, you are correct. I was mixing threads up... ;).
 

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