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Another isolated incident: cops maim toddler with flash grenade

marplots said:
OK, I'll suspend my disbelief as well and for the sake of argument assume the cops are omniscient.

Now they know who is in the house. How does anything change? It's still a location where drugs are being sold - as recently as that day if I remember correctly. If they knew there was a toddler inside, they have more reason not to delay - the child is in danger - not less reason.
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Yes, having a drug dealer in the house of a toddler puts them at some risk. But do you REALLY think that risk is so high that it outweighs the risk of a SWAT operation to kick in the door and possibly have a shoot out with a child in the home, instead of waiting for the drug dealer to leave the house, and then picking him up? Which he did do. And he didn't even have a weapon.

If the police had actual evidence that the child was in immediate threat of harm, then a no-knock raid is appropriate. I can't see anywhere from the article that they did.
 
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marplots said:
OK, I'll suspend my disbelief as well and for the sake of argument assume the cops are omniscient.

Now they know who is in the house. How does anything change? It's still a location where drugs are being sold - as recently as that day if I remember correctly. If they knew there was a toddler inside, they have more reason not to delay - the child is in danger - not less reason.
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For starters, there wouldn't be a flash grenade. It's against protocol for the cops to use them if there are children in the house.

Here's an out of the box idea: knock on the door first, perhaps even (gasp!) not in the middle of the night, and inform the occupants that the police are serving a warrant. Give them 30 seconds to surrender peacefully and if they do, great. Break down the door if not. These no-knock raids are ridiculous in a so-called free society.
 
William Parcher said:
At the minimum a message went out.

"Dear Drug (Meth) Dealer, you are placing yourself, family, friends, children and visitors in potential danger of all kinds. Stop dealing and the dangers will go away."

But will they listen? Will they ever listen and learn?
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Nothing says justice more than the delivery of arbitrary violence on innocent bystanders...
 
Let the courts hand out justice. Let the cops get the bad guys and risk their own lives every day.
 
William Parcher said:
Let the courts hand out justice. Let the cops get the bad guys and risk their own lives every day.
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If the cops were actually concerned about their own lives then they would have performed surveillance on the house before assaulting it. They didn't bother with that because they knew the risk to themselves was minimal.
 
I'm getting a bit tired of "the police risk their lives all the time" as an excuse for cops who put other people's lives at risk.
 
Cleon said:
I'm getting a bit tired of "the police risk their lives all the time" as an excuse for cops who put other people's lives at risk.
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Especially when the risks are exaggerated beyond all reason. Police work doesn't even make the top 10 list of most dangerous occupations.
 
The flash grenade was probably a mistake in this situation. They are probably reviewing procedure since this one was thrown next to a little kid. Figure out what went wrong and go on from there. Meth dealers should do the same if they give a speck of care for humanity.
 
Aepervius said:
Well you could do it like police was doing it 20 years ago : instead of using a no knock warrant and kill the dog and burn the toddler on an informant info, you could investigate, watch the place, and build a case, and really determine if you really need to break in like an mini army.
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Yeah but that's so uncinematic...
 
So the meme is going to be that cops are brutal thugs, preying on innocent citizen-victims? Maybe we should quit hiring heartless monsters and get some folks with families of their own so they'd understand it isn't appropriate to attack toddlers. Well, unarmed toddlers.

There are good reasons to focus on officer safety. One is that this is an area were we can set policies and expect them to be followed - a stable island as contrasted with the vast variety of situations where it will be applied. Another is the fact that any particular citizen will be lucky to face a no-knock even once in their lifetime, where an officer might participate in one (or more) a week.

Here's a thought: require suspects to turn themselves in and bring any evidence they have with them. A phone call would do it. Phone calls are safe and cheap. And if that seems a stretch, just call and let them know the police are on to them - give them a chance to change their ways and avoid all the consequences. It's not like we ever blame the police for not acting when they don't arrest someone who then does something worse.

Cops are suckers if they can't see that less policing is better policing. And on the offender side, the advantages of having a toddler as human-shield are plain. I suggest a clearly visible sign on the door, equivalent to "toddler on board" - should work wonders for a meth business.
 
More out of the box thinking: if the police don't want to be perceived as brutal thugs, perhaps they should stop acting like brutal thugs.
 
ravdin said:
More out of the box thinking: if the police don't want to be perceived as brutal thugs, perhaps they should stop acting like brutal thugs.
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Exactly. It's not like interactions with violent criminals can't be gentle and caring. I mean, what sort of human being wouldn't respond in kind to courtesy?

Criminals aren't animals. They are just regular folks who've temporarily lost their way, or, in some cases, simply aren't familiar with the law and social convention. What's needed are fewer cops and more social workers. If we could simply start meaningful dialogues, I'm sure it could be worked out to everyone's satisfaction.
 
What? No one is going to call me out on all my straw men? I'm getting low on straw here...
 
Chaos said:
Isn´t finding that out the sort of thing that falls under "basic police work"?
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The Blue gang doesn't have to ask questions.
Every-one is guilty even if the Blue Gang have to provide the evidence themselves
 
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