Another interesting story out of Arizona

[Alferd_Packer]

There appears to be an interesting controversy over the origin of Arizona’s SB1070 immigration law.

A recent investigation by NPR indicates that the drafting of the law originated and was drafted by private prison contractors, who stand to profit from the law.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130833741

Of course the principle sponsor of the bill, Russell Pearce, denys this.

http://news.google.com/news/search?...=en&q=arizona+citizen+pearce&cf=all&scoring=n

There are so many different issues in play here that could be discussed on several different threads.

1. What is the role in private industry in setting legislation? Is that role appropriate?
   
   
2. Why are prisons privatized in the first place?
   
   
3. This report was prepared by a reporter from NPR. Do you think that FOX or MSNBC would have ever have undertaken such an investigation? Should they have? Are reports like this one of the reasons why some people want to shut down NPR?
   

 

[leftysergeant]

[*]What is the role in private industry in setting legislation? Is that role appropriate?{/QUOTE]

Totally a fascist idea that is only of benefit to the least ethical of the investor class, and another reason to force a court case that ends corporate personhood so that these slimeballs can be stripped of the right to do business. When it becomes more profitable for the state or those who control the state through extra legal means, the state will naturally bring a lot more marginal cases to court to maximize the pool of prison labor.

THis has been tried before and it got utterly out of hasnd.

And, in the case of Arizona, we are dealing with the same sort of sub-human demagogue pushing the measures as screwed it up the last time a major nation tried it. The private prison concerns are Auschwitz in the sage brush.

[*]Why are prisons privatized in the first place?

I think the extreme right want to make us as much like China as possible, weithout the humanitarian considerations. An investor's paradise with an abundant labor force that cannot complain and form unions.

It may also be a back-door way to restore the institution of slavery.

[*]This report was prepared by a reporter from NPR. Do you think that FOX or MSNBC would have ever have undertaken such an investigation? Should they have? Are reports like this one of the reasons why some people want to shut down NPR?

That's close to a Well, DUH! However, Rachel Maddow has been on that scumbag Pearce like ugly on an ape. Other than that, though, he has been getting by without the scorn, derision and abuse he so richly deserves.

 

[Brainster]

A hilarious piece of agenda "journalism" that relies heavily on innuendo. Let's see how the piece was slanted.

"The gentleman that's the main thrust of this thing has a huge turquoise ring on his finger," Nichols said. "He's a great big huge guy and I equated him to a car salesman."

Okay, so we have our archetypal capitalist villain: flashy jewelry, fat and male. It doesn't get any better than that.

But Nichols wasn't buying. He asked them how would they possibly keep a prison full for years — decades even — with illegal immigrants?

Yes, that is indeed a head-scratcher. It's not like there's a continuing flood of illegal immigrants, offering a steady supply of inmates. Note as well the implication that individual immigrants will be held for years, even decades.

It was last December at the Grand Hyatt in Washington, D.C. Inside, there was a meeting of a secretive group called the American Legislative Exchange Council. Insiders call it ALEC.

Whereas outsiders call it EVIL. I mean, c'mon. Secretive? Insiders? Loaded words.

It's a membership organization of state legislators and powerful corporations and associations, such as the tobacco company Reynolds American Inc., ExxonMobil and the National Rifle Association. Another member is the billion-dollar Corrections Corporation of America — the largest private prison company in the country.

A trifecta of bogeymen for liberals: Big tobacco, big oil and big guns. Never mind that they have nothing to do with this piece of legislation.

As soon as Pearce's bill hit the Arizona statehouse floor in January, there were signs of ALEC's influence. Thirty-six co-sponsors jumped on, a number almost unheard of in the capitol.

It couldn't have anything to do with, oh, I don't know, the popularity of anti-illegal immigration legislation? No, it's got to be those influence-peddlers at ALEC.

 

[Beerina]

[*]What is the role in private industry in setting legislation? Is that role appropriate?

Totally a fascist idea that is only of benefit to the least ethical of the investor class, and another reason to force a court case that ends corporate personhood so that these slimeballs can be stripped of the right to do business. When it becomes more profitable for the state or those who control the state through extra legal means, the state will naturally bring a lot more marginal cases to court to maximize the pool of prison labor.

THis has been tried before and it got utterly out of hasnd.

And, in the case of Arizona, we are dealing with the same sort of sub-human demagogue pushing the measures as screwed it up the last time a major nation tried it. The private prison concerns are Auschwitz in the sage brush.

Do you understand your rabid knee-jerkism contributes nothing to the discussion?


I mean, golly! The last time government-only prisons happened, even more people died in the Soviet Union!

 

[leftysergeant]

I mean, golly! The last time government-only prisons happened, even more people died in the Soviet Union!

For profit prisons are a relative new phenomenon in industrialized countries. See if you can pull something more relevant and realistic out of your underwear next time.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

snip... And, in the case of Arizona, we are dealing with the same sort of sub-human demagogue pushing the measures as screwed it up the last time a major nation tried it. The private prison concerns are Auschwitz in the sage brush.

Oh please, for God's sake, when was the last time Mexicans were worked to death in what amounted to expendable slave labour?

When was the last time mad scientists showed an unhealthy obsession with Mexican identical twins and could carry out their sick obsessions?

How many Mexicans have been gassed with Carbon Monoxide and later Cyanide?

Where can i find a lampshade made from Mexican people's skin?

I may not like the idea of privatised prisons, but to compare it to the nightmare that was Auschwitz is to cheapen the millions who died in the Holocaust.

I think the extreme right want to make us as much like China as possible, weithout the humanitarian considerations. An investor's paradise with an abundant labor force that cannot complain and form unions.

[citation needed]

It may also be a back-door way to restore the institution of slavery.

Prove it. NOW.

 

[pipelineaudio]

You realize the for profit prisons are federal right? For instance, in Arizona, federal prisoners from Hawaii are housed

Arizona just happens to be where a lot of these things are, not who is creating them

The scary thing to me is that if we're going to have a giant prison industry it stands to reason that they'll lobby for more prisoners, more criminalization of behaviors, more laws, more nanny state

 

[thaiboxerken]

You realize the for profit prisons are federal right? For instance, in Arizona, federal prisoners from Hawaii are housed

Arizona just happens to be where a lot of these things are, not who is creating them

The scary thing to me is that if we're going to have a giant prison industry it stands to reason that they'll lobby for more prisoners, more criminalization of behaviors, more laws, more nanny state

So the profit from these privately owned and run prisons go to the government? Have any evidence to support this?

Or.. ahh.. maybe you mean that these "profit prisons" are for federal criminals.

 

[Ziggurat]

I think the extreme right want to make us as much like China as possible, weithout the humanitarian considerations.

God damn that right-wing extremist Thomas Friedman!

Rachel Maddow has been on that scumbag Pearce like ugly on an ape.

Rachel Maddow is homely, but I wouldn't call her ugly.

 

[Magyar]

while I wouldn't quite go as far as LS, it is beginning to appear more and more that the right is dreaming of a 3rd world nation status for the US, where the middle class no longer exists and they are free to do what they like without much if any repercussion.


If you look into a ALEC I think that there is something very disturbing about a basically clandestine group that is not accountable to any one and who has the ability to write such powerful legislation based on purely the interests of a private industry.

 

[Ziggurat]

If you look into a ALEC I think that there is something very disturbing about a basically clandestine group that is not accountable to any one and who has the ability to write such powerful legislation based on purely the interests of a private industry.

Anyone can write legislation. You and I can do that. That's not the trick. The trick is getting it passed, and at that point, the identity of who writes it becomes irrelevant next to its contents. Where that can become problematic is if the bill is passed too quickly for people to find out its contents. But that's hardly a problem peculiar to the Republicans, as the recent health care bill showed.

 

[pipelineaudio]

So the profit from these privately owned and run prisons go to the government?

No, they go to the owners of the private prisons

 

[thaiboxerken]

. Where that can become problematic is if the bill is passed too quickly for people to find out its contents. But that's hardly a problem peculiar to the Republicans, as the recent health care bill showed.

Right, because 18 months isn't enough time to review the bill before it's passed......

 

[leftysergeant]

I may not like the idea of privatised prisons, but to compare it to the nightmare that was Auschwitz is to cheapen the millions who died in the Holocaust.

The owners of the for-profit system have the same kind of ecconomic goals and, with friends like that maggot Pearce taking therir side, I will nmot rule out that they share his ideology. Worse conspiracies have proven out over the years.

Prove it. NOW.

They are creating a population of persons in involuntary servitude for profit. Not a dime's worth of difference. Bear in mind that the first slaves transported out of Africa were prisoners of war sold to traders to get them out of the way in order to pacify rebellious or newly-conquered areas.

They may not be as into genocide (yet) but they are still Nazi lite.

 

[Ziggurat]

Right, because 18 months isn't enough time to review the bill before it's passed......

The bill as passed wasn't 18 months old. And damned few people in Congress actually read the thing. Perhaps it wasn't an issue of time, but the complete contents of the bill were indeed not known to many people. And still aren't.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

The owners of the for-profit system have the same kind of ecconomic goals and, with friends like that maggot Pearce taking therir side, I will nmot rule out that they share his ideology. Worse conspiracies have proven out over the years.



They are creating a population of persons in involuntary servitude for profit. Not a dime's worth of difference. Bear in mind that the first slaves transported out of Africa were prisoners of war sold to traders to get them out of the way in order to pacify rebellious or newly-conquered areas.

They may not be as into genocide (yet) but they are still Nazi lite.

Oh please, for God's sake, when was the last time Mexicans were taken to concentration camps en masse?

How many have died due to being subject to doctors who considered the Hippocratic oath, in the words of Team Fortress 2, "an optional Hippocratic suggestion"

When have the Private Prison companies ever proclaimed any racism or a desire to enslave or kill all of the "untermenschen"?

Where can i find soap made from a Mexican man's fat?

And you have presented no evidence that they want to bring back Slavery.

This is so full of fail.

 

[leftysergeant]

Oh please, for God's sake, when was the last time Mexicans were taken to concentration camps en masse?

They haven't yet, because the court put a stop to that bit of Pearce's crap.

How many have died due to being subject to doctors who considered the Hippocratic oath, in the words of Team Fortress 2, "an optional Hippocratic suggestion"

How do you make money killing slaves?

When have the Private Prison companies ever proclaimed any racism or a desire to enslave or kill all of the "untermenschen"?

They haven't, but some of their enablers have, like that creep Pearce.

And you have presented no evidence that they want to bring back Slavery.

Fait accompli.

 

[SezMe]

Anyone can write legislation. You and I can do that. That's not the trick. The trick is getting it passed, and at that point, the identity of who writes it becomes irrelevant next to its contents. Where that can become problematic is if the bill is passed too quickly for people to find out its contents. But that's hardly a problem peculiar to the Republicans, as the recent health care bill showed.

Who wrote it matters because that substantially determines the contents of the bill. But your last statement is certainly correct. The problem is endemic in California:

Instead, it often works like this: A lobbyist has an idea to make life better - mainly for his client. The lobbyist writes the bill, shops for a lawmaker willing to introduce it and lines up the support. The legislator has to do little more than show up and vote.


....


A Mercury News analysis found that in 2007-2008, the most recent complete two-year legislative session, more than 1,800 bills - about 39 percent - were sponsored by outside interests. Those sponsored bills comprised 60 percent of the legislation actually passed into law.


.....


Sponsored bills swamp the Legislature. They amounted to 42 percent of those introduced in the Assembly and a third of those in the Senate.

Dems dominate the California legislature.

 

[SezMe]

You realize the for profit prisons are federal right?

Nope:

Privately operated prisons under contract with the state of California to house non-violent minimum/medium security felons have not fared any better.

The scary thing to me is that if we're going to have a giant prison industry it stands to reason that they'll lobby for more prisoners, more criminalization of behaviors, more laws, more nanny state

Read the the opening paragraphs in the above link for some really scary statistics.

In 1977, California housed 19,600 inmates. A decade later in 1998, the inmate population had skyrocketed by an astronomical 811 percent to 159,000. By February 2000 that number had jumped to 161,000. California now runs the largest prison system in the Western world. It houses more prisoners than do the countries of France, Germany, the Netherlands, and Singapore combined. California has spent $5.2 billion on new prisons since 1977, yet it still has the most overcrowded system in the United States.

Currently, the state of California incarcerates one out of every eight prisoners in the United States. It is estimated that California will eventually need 30 to 50 new prisons to accommodate the influx of prisoners dictated by mandatory sentencing, stiffer enforcement of parole violations, and the three-strikes law.

Prop 19 on the ballot next Tuesday attempts to decriminalize pot. The private prison industry had been a major funding source for the opposition and current trends show it going down to defeat.

 

[Virus]

The scary thing to me is that if we're going to have a giant prison industry it stands to reason that they'll lobby for more prisoners, more criminalization of behaviors, more laws, more nanny state

Appeal to motives fallacy.