Another "Chi" demonstration

[Bronze Dog]

It can be hard to read a person's tone online. Let's move on.

 

[thaiboxerken]

A few posts back Hypernicus insulted Uri Geller and was right to do so. (S)He doesn't strike me as a total believer.

No, he's one of those types that admit there are "fakes" out there. He's already stated that these superpowers are not repeatable, he's equivocated them to miracles.

 

[Wudang]

I think Hypernicus has felt insulted on this board. I don't know where he's from but his attitude reminds me of my Malaysian chinese friends at university.
I read his position as being that he's interested that there are occasional "strange things" - the old mother lifting a car of a baby, someone thinking of an old friend just before they ring - but he's saying that although interesting as individual things they need to be repeatable before being really interesting.
hypernicus, feel free to tell me I'm talking rubbish. Welcome to the board.

 

[Hypernicus]

"You are only allowed to post URLs to other sites after you have made 15 posts or more."

Thanks, now my whole post is gone, and I have to make a new one.

 

[Hypernicus]

I read his position as being that he's interested that there are occasional "strange things"

I can only relate to what I read, and according to most of those stories they could not be repeated, but I can't rule them out for never happening. I myself have had many experiences that I couldn't repeat.

be repeatable before being really interesting

Here are some of them:

Helen Duncan
This is the true story of a woman sent to prison accused of being a witch when she was a well-known and proven psychic. During WWII Helen's accurate 'death notices' were verified countless times.
http://www.helenduncan.org.uk

Hundredth Monkey
The "Hundredth Monkey Effect" is the name for a supposed phenomenon in which a particular learned behaviour spread instantaneously from one group of animals, once a critical number was reached, to all related animals in the region or perhaps throughout the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundredth_Monkey

Children Who Claim to Remember Previous Lives
In many parts of the world, some young children, usually between the ages of 2 and 5, speak about a previous life they claim to have lived.
http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/personalitystudies/case_types.cfm#CORT

Leslie Flint
In his heyday, which was before the war and some 25 years after it, Leslie Flint was one of Britain's best-known Spiritualists. He possessed the rare distinction of being a direct voice medium.
http://www.leslieflint.com/leslieflint.html

The Plants Respond
Sometimes it happens that a person can name the exact moment when his or her life changed irrevocably. For Cleve Backster, it was early morning on February 2, 1966, at thirteen minutes, fifty-five seconds of chart time for a polygraph he was administering. One of the world's experts on polygraphs, and the creator of the Backster Zone Comparison Test, the standard used by lie detection examiners worldwide, Backster had threatened the subject's well-being in hopes of triggering a response. The subject had responded electrochemically to this threat. The subject was a plant.
http://www.derrickjensen.org/backster.html

Auras
The human aura is an energy field that reflects the subtle life energies within the body. These energies make us what we are and in turn are affected by our surroundings and life style. The aura reflects our health, mental activity and emotional state. It also shows disease - often long before the onset of symptoms.
http://www.worldtrans.org/spir/aura.html

 

[Wudang]

The wikipedia Hundredth Monkey article has as evidence the "reduced crime" rate caused by TMers. This was debunked in Robert Park's book "Voodoo Science" - he called it "a clinic in data distortion". There's your starter now go checking some other facts.

 

[CFLarsen]

Helen Duncan
This is the true story of a woman sent to prison accused of being a witch when she was a well-known and proven psychic. During WWII Helen's accurate 'death notices' were verified countless times.
http://www.helenduncan.org.uk

Verified by whom? There's not a single verifiable source of that on the site.

Hundredth Monkey
The "Hundredth Monkey Effect" is the name for a supposed phenomenon in which a particular learned behaviour spread instantaneously from one group of animals, once a critical number was reached, to all related animals in the region or perhaps throughout the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundredth_Monkey

Skeptic's Dictionary tells what really happened.

Children Who Claim to Remember Previous Lives
In many parts of the world, some young children, usually between the ages of 2 and 5, speak about a previous life they claim to have lived.
http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/personalitystudies/case_types.cfm#CORT

Book Review: Ian Stevenson: "Children Who Remember Previous Lives, A Question of Reincarnation"

The Apparent Belief System of Ian Stevenson

Leslie Flint
In his heyday, which was before the war and some 25 years after it, Leslie Flint was one of Britain's best-known Spiritualists. He possessed the rare distinction of being a direct voice medium.
http://www.leslieflint.com/leslieflint.html

Ah, good old Leslie and his voice box and fake ectoplasm....

The Plants Respond
Sometimes it happens that a person can name the exact moment when his or her life changed irrevocably. For Cleve Backster, it was early morning on February 2, 1966, at thirteen minutes, fifty-five seconds of chart time for a polygraph he was administering. One of the world's experts on polygraphs, and the creator of the Backster Zone Comparison Test, the standard used by lie detection examiners worldwide, Backster had threatened the subject's well-being in hopes of triggering a response. The subject had responded electrochemically to this threat. The subject was a plant.
http://www.derrickjensen.org/backster.html

Polygraphs? You lose, big time.

Auras
The human aura is an energy field that reflects the subtle life energies within the body. These energies make us what we are and in turn are affected by our surroundings and life style. The aura reflects our health, mental activity and emotional state. It also shows disease - often long before the onset of symptoms.
http://www.worldtrans.org/spir/aura.html

Show me an aura.

 

[Hypernicus]

Skeptic's Dictionary tells what really happened.

Why do birds fly in V-formation? Could it be because of flock-mentality?

Ah, good old Leslie and his voice box and fake ectoplasm....

Link please.

Polygraphs? You lose, big time.

Link please.

Show me an aura

Practice

http://kirlianresearch.com


Do you have some articles on to discretid Out-of-Body experience and Astral Projection?

 

[CFLarsen]

Why do birds fly in V-formation? Could it be because of flock-mentality?

No, because it conserves energy.

What do you think of the article?

Link please.

To what? Can you provide me with ectoplasm that isn't fake?

Link please.

polygraph ("lie detector")

AntiPolygraph.org

Practice

http://kirlianresearch.com

Oh, yeah? Can you see auras? Or do you know anyone who can?

Do you have some articles on to discretid Out-of-Body experience and Astral Projection?

It isn't a question of discrediting something, but to provide natural explanations for them.

Out of Body, Out of Mind

 

[Hypernicus]

No, because it conserves energy.

Circle-argument.

What do you think of the article?

I've read it before. I don't rule out flock-mentality.

Or do you know anyone who can?

That doesn't prove anything even though I knew someone who could.

Out of Body, Out of Mind
"Nobody can deliver any evidence, of course."

You can easily verify it yourself, that's the beauty of it. There are a lot of free reading on the Internet for everyone to try for themselves. Nevertheless almost everyone in the world will at least one time in their life experience an OBE without having tried to do so. Have you?

Out-of-body experience clues may hide in mind
Blanke said it would have been difficult for the patient to fake such an experience. She had up to 100 electrodes implanted in her brain for these sessions, and had no idea which electrode would be stimulated, or when. The stimulations each took 2 seconds or less.

Red rain in Keralawas a phenomenon observed sporadically from 25 July to 23 September 2001 in the southern Indian state of Kerala. Heavy downpours occurred in which the rain was primarily red, staining clothes and appearing like
blood. Yellow, green, and black rains were also reported.

SIR ARTHUR CONAN DOYLE (1859-1930)
Sir Arthur Conan DoyleWriter, psychic researcher. He was able to make contact with entities from the afterlife. Many people know him for his great writing skills such as his creation of Sherlock Holmes - but Sir Arthur's greatest gift was when he conducted research into the afterlife. He wrote a magnificent History of Spiritualism book 1 and book 2; also he wrote The Wandering of a Spiritualist - but his best books ever were dictated to medium Grace Cooke from the other side, Arthur Conan Doyle's Book of the Beyond and The Return of Arthur Conan
Doyle. more

The American Association of Electronic Voice Phenomena (AA-EVP)is a nonprofit educational association that is dedicated to the support of people who are interested in or who are studying Electronic Voice Phenomena (EVP) and Instrumental TransCommunication (ITC). This web site offers examples, techniques and concepts concerning Phenomena.
Electronic Voice Phenomena (EVP) concerns unexpected voices found in recording media. It is a form of after death communication. ITC is a newer term that includes all of the ways these unexpected voices and images are collected through technology, including EVP. Of the many hypotheses designed to explain these phenomena, the Survival Hypothesis has been found to be most effective in answering the evidence.

Instrumental Transcommunicationmeans that the messages coming from beyond will be received and/or stored by use of technical means. ITC is the use of tape recorder, TVs, radios, computers, telephones, and other technical devices with the intent to get meaningful information from beyond in such forms as voices, images, and text.
EVP (Electronic Voice Phenomena) experimenting produced the first ITC contacts using a tape recorder and a simple microphone. Later on there occurred ITC contacts via telephone, computer, fax, special devices and so on. The big advantage of ITC is the possibility to prove to others that something uncommon takes place. Not only the receiver of the messages, for example the medium, but also others could become a witness of these contacts. Almost everybody who is really interested in that phenomenon can get and with persistence will get EVP.

Ten arguments for a life after death

 

[KingMerv00]

I can only relate to what I read, and according to most of those stories they could not be repeated, but I can't rule them out for never happening. I myself have had many experiences that I couldn't repeat.


Here are some of them:

Helen Duncan
This is the true story of a woman sent to prison accused of being a witch when she was a well-known and proven psychic. During WWII Helen's accurate 'death notices' were verified countless times.
http://www.helenduncan.org.uk

Hundredth Monkey
The "Hundredth Monkey Effect" is the name for a supposed phenomenon in which a particular learned behaviour spread instantaneously from one group of animals, once a critical number was reached, to all related animals in the region or perhaps throughout the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundredth_Monkey

Children Who Claim to Remember Previous Lives
In many parts of the world, some young children, usually between the ages of 2 and 5, speak about a previous life they claim to have lived.
http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/personalitystudies/case_types.cfm#CORT

Leslie Flint
In his heyday, which was before the war and some 25 years after it, Leslie Flint was one of Britain's best-known Spiritualists. He possessed the rare distinction of being a direct voice medium.
http://www.leslieflint.com/leslieflint.html

The Plants Respond
Sometimes it happens that a person can name the exact moment when his or her life changed irrevocably. For Cleve Backster, it was early morning on February 2, 1966, at thirteen minutes, fifty-five seconds of chart time for a polygraph he was administering. One of the world's experts on polygraphs, and the creator of the Backster Zone Comparison Test, the standard used by lie detection examiners worldwide, Backster had threatened the subject's well-being in hopes of triggering a response. The subject had responded electrochemically to this threat. The subject was a plant.
http://www.derrickjensen.org/backster.html

Auras
The human aura is an energy field that reflects the subtle life energies within the body. These energies make us what we are and in turn are affected by our surroundings and life style. The aura reflects our health, mental activity and emotional state. It also shows disease - often long before the onset of symptoms.
http://www.worldtrans.org/spir/aura.html

I'll leave the "official" debunking to people smarter than me.

You mentioned that there are things that do not lend themselves to scientific study because they work intermittently. However, we know that people can delude themselves into thinking all kinds of things. Are these unconfirmed, paranormal phenomenon probable?

Using Occam's Razor, we know that either the laws of nature as we know them are completely wrong or people are fooling themselves and/or lying. The former choice assumes more and is therefore most likely wrong. Furthermore, the latter is observed frequently.

 

[Mr. Scott]

Randi, man of reason!

I turned to this forum because James Randi is a man who can reason.

Because Randi is a man who can reason, he's likely to tear you a new one or two if you share your ideas (and your hostility) with him. If you write to him directly at randi@randi.org he may report on it in his weekly commentary for everyone to enjoy.

 

[CFLarsen]

Circle-argument.

Huh? You don't know what a circular argument is.

The birds don't fly in V-formation because of flock instinct. They fly in V-formation because it saves energy. Mind you, not all migrating birds fly in V-formation.

I've read it before. I don't rule out flock-mentality.

You need to explain more.

That doesn't prove anything even though I knew someone who could.

You "knew"? How did you "know" that he could? How was he tested?

You can easily verify it yourself, that's the beauty of it. There are a lot of free reading on the Internet for everyone to try for themselves. Nevertheless almost everyone in the world will at least one time in their life experience an OBE without having tried to do so. Have you?

The point is, is it paranormal, or your brain playing tricks on you?

Red rain in Keralawas a phenomenon observed sporadically from 25 July to 23 September 2001 in the southern Indian state of Kerala. Heavy downpours occurred in which the rain was primarily red, staining clothes and appearing like
blood. Yellow, green, and black rains were also reported.

Why are you bringing this up? Is it paranormal?

SIR ARTHUR CONAN DOYLE (1859-1930)
Sir Arthur Conan DoyleWriter, psychic researcher. He was able to make contact with entities from the afterlife. Many people know him for his great writing skills such as his creation of Sherlock Holmes - but Sir Arthur's greatest gift was when he conducted research into the afterlife. He wrote a magnificent History of Spiritualism book 1 and book 2; also he wrote The Wandering of a Spiritualist - but his best books ever were dictated to medium Grace Cooke from the other side, Arthur Conan Doyle's Book of the Beyond and The Return of Arthur Conan
Doyle. more

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was so gullible, he fell for the Cottingley Fairies hoax.

The American Association of Electronic Voice Phenomena (AA-EVP)is a nonprofit educational association that is dedicated to the support of people who are interested in or who are studying Electronic Voice Phenomena (EVP) and Instrumental TransCommunication (ITC). This web site offers examples, techniques and concepts concerning Phenomena.
Electronic Voice Phenomena (EVP) concerns unexpected voices found in recording media. It is a form of after death communication. ITC is a newer term that includes all of the ways these unexpected voices and images are collected through technology, including EVP. Of the many hypotheses designed to explain these phenomena, the Survival Hypothesis has been found to be most effective in answering the evidence.

Instrumental Transcommunicationmeans that the messages coming from beyond will be received and/or stored by use of technical means. ITC is the use of tape recorder, TVs, radios, computers, telephones, and other technical devices with the intent to get meaningful information from beyond in such forms as voices, images, and text.
EVP (Electronic Voice Phenomena) experimenting produced the first ITC contacts using a tape recorder and a simple microphone. Later on there occurred ITC contacts via telephone, computer, fax, special devices and so on. The big advantage of ITC is the possibility to prove to others that something uncommon takes place. Not only the receiver of the messages, for example the medium, but also others could become a witness of these contacts. Almost everybody who is really interested in that phenomenon can get and with persistence will get EVP.

EVP proponents lack even the most basic understanding of electronics, as well as a failure to understand Backmasking.

Ten arguments for a life after death

None of which has been proved scientifically.

Look, this is not going to be one long list of unproven claims, is it?

 

[thaiboxerken]

Did I not predict that this guy is a believer accurately? I'm good.

 

[Hypernicus]

Because Randi is a man who can reason, he's likely to tear you a new one or two if you share your ideas (and your hostility) with him.

Does he post on this forum at all? Didn't think so. This forum has "followers" and people who are interested if something unlikely can be proven so this is the forum I want to check out.

Since Randi doesn't ignore A==A in his work I have no hostility against him, only those who do.

 

[Hypernicus]

Huh? You don't know what a circular argument is.

You still don't know seeing that you repeat the same gurgle again.

The birds didn't just suddenly decide to fly in V-formation because they knew it would save energy, they had no way of knowing so.

You need to explain more.

No need, it is theoretical, and will use many pages back and forth.

You "knew"? How did you "know" that he could? How was he tested?

Correction: "It doesn't prove anything wether I knew someone who could or not."

The point is, is it paranormal, or your brain playing tricks on you?

There are many examples when people have OBE when having a NDE (near death experience). This is not uncommon in operation rooms. They have seen the operation, and knew the tools they used, what was said, and there were no way they could have known that in advance.

Why are you bringing this up? Is it paranormal?

Neglect it if it cannot be brought up on this forum.

Look, this is not going to be one long list of unproven claims, is it?

No, I just wanted to bring up some stuff to see how serious the people here are and what level of knowledge this forum is at. I'm content.

 

[KingMerv00]

Did I not predict that this guy is a believer accurately? I'm good.

Aye lad, ye did good.

Still, newbies should get the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Hypernicus]

Did I not predict that this guy is a believer accurately? I'm good.

Liar! Where do you see that I am a believer? I only stick to A==A, and not your psychotic meanings.

 

[KingMerv00]

You still don't know seeing that you repeat the same gurgle again.

The birds didn't just suddenly decide to fly in V-formation because they knew it would save energy, they had no way of knowing so.

My understanding is that the instinct is hardwired into them from birth. How do birds know that flapping their wings will make them fly? How do animals know how to mate?

There are many examples when people have OBE when having a NDE (near death experience). This is not uncommon in operation rooms. They have seen the operation, and knew the tools they used, what was said, and there were no way they could have known that in advance.

Many examples? Provide some please.

No, I just wanted to bring up some stuff to see how serious the people here are and what level of knowledge this forum is at. I'm content.

Out of curiousity, what kind of response did you expect? What was your hope?

 

[KingMerv00]

Liar! Where do you see that I am a believer? I only stick to A==A, and not your psychotic meanings.

To be fair, you are projecting the image of a "believer" even if that is not your intention.

Help me out with this "A==A" thing. I might be familiar with the concept but not the symbol.