Annoying creationists

[kleinman]

Annoying Creationists

Really, you are sure that I am not a Christian? So you are more than a Wookie Weatherman, you are a mind reader.

No speculation. I'm simply going by your actions.

I don't think jesus would approve of a doctor who knowingly endangered their patients by using unsound medical practices. Indeed, evolutionary theory as explained by the concept of multiple constant selection pressures vs. variable pressures is used today by modern medicine to treat patients. A rejection of evolution would endanger millions of lives.

Well now, the Wookie Weatherman and mind reader knows of unsound medial practice I am using. Why don’t you tell us of all these unsound medical practice I am using? Then you can tell us how variations in the weather will evolve a Wookie. Let’s see if your paranormal skills work over here on the Science forum.

 

[joobz]

Well now, the Wookie Weatherman and mind reader knows of unsound medial practice I am using. Why don’t you tell us of all these unsound medical practice I am using? Then you can tell us how variations in the weather will evolve a Wookie. Let’s see if your paranormal skills work over here on the Science forum.

well,
you've said

the theory of evolution is mathematically impossible

We know that combination therapy (the use of constant, strong selection pressures) works to suppress adaptation. If we listened to you, we wouldn't use such advanced medicine.

I would hate to think that you've used any of your anti-evolution concepts to treat patients. It would be horribly amoral and unchristian.

 

[kleinman]

Annoying Creationists

Well now, the Wookie Weatherman and mind reader knows of unsound medial practice I am using. Why don’t you tell us of all these unsound medical practice I am using? Then you can tell us how variations in the weather will evolve a Wookie. Let’s see if your paranormal skills work over here on the Science forum.

well, you've said

the theory of evolution is mathematically impossible

We know that combination therapy (the use of constant, strong selection pressures) works to suppress adaptation. If we listened to you, we wouldn't use such advanced medicine.

Tell us more of what your paranormal skills reveal. Tell us how variable selection pressures evolve a Wookie. Tell us how cooperative chemistry gives spontaneous generation of life.

I would hate to think that you've used any of your anti-evolution concepts to treat patients.

Why joobz, there are no theory of evolution concepts suitable for treating patients. What do you want me to do, put my patients out into the weather and tell them to evolve to it? Who knows, I might end up with Wookies for patients. I’d hate to have to treat a Wookie for alopecia.

 

[kjkent1]

Once again you demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding of the basic science of the mutation and selection sorting/optimization process. Strong selection pressures are strong because they select out (kill or prevent procreation) a large portion of the population. If the population can not adapt to these strong pressures, the population goes extinct. Weak selection pressures do not select out large portions of the population and therefore do not increase in frequency the genetic sequence those pressures are directed at. Strong selection pressures force rapid evolution of the genome. Weak selection pressures only cause slight drift of the population about the local optimum on the fitness landscape.

Well, that was incomprehensibly vague, Alan.

What exactly is the measurement equating to "large proportion of the population" that divides strong pressures from weak? Furthermore, your statement indicates that where strong selective pressures force rapid evolution, they simultaneously drive the population to extinction. That's a pretty interesting dichotomy, if ya ask me.

Work on your theory a little bit before you present it, because you're looking pretty foolish at the moment.

Apparently you haven’t been reading the citations I have been posting because I have posted several similar citations. All these citations show is that frame shifts do not change the fact that combination therapy still profoundly slows the evolution of the HIV virus. It is not the type of mutation the drives the mathematical behavior of the mutation and selection sorting/optimization process it is the number of selection conditions which dominates the mathematics of the mutation and selection sorting/optimization process.

Apparently, there's at least one citation -- mine -- which shows that the frame shift leads to immunoprophylaxis escape. And, that one cite falsifies your conclusion, because the selective pressures were unable to suppress the evolution by frame shift mutation.

Maybe you should go back and read it.

 

[joobz]

Tell us more of what your paranormal skills reveal. Tell us how variable selection pressures evolve a Wookie. Tell us how cooperative chemistry gives spontaneous generation of life.

I'm not certain how this relates to your failure to maintain chrsitian principles. Perhaps you'd like to explain to me how endangering millions of people is not a sin.

Why joobz, there are no theory of evolution concepts suitable for treating patients.

And this is why you are obviously not a christian. A person who actually loved their fellow man wouldn't hold to such an amoral position.

 

[Mr. Scott]

Some smart legal beagle is going to figure out that the gross misinterpretation that evolutionists make of the mutation and selection sorting/optimization process has and will continue to contribute to the premature death of millions of people suffering from diseases subject to the principles of mutation and selection. That smart legal beagle will have a lawsuit that will dwarf the tobacco lawsuit.

Dr. Kleinman, tell us about a time you used a creationist-based drug regimen instead of an evolution-based regimen in a treatment of one of your patients. What was the nature of the infection? What was the standard treatment you thought wrong because it depended on the standard theory of evolution? What was the creationist-based treatment you used as a substitute? Was it as successful as you expected?

 

[kleinman]

Annoying Creationists

Tell us more of what your paranormal skills reveal. Tell us how variable selection pressures evolve a Wookie. Tell us how cooperative chemistry gives spontaneous generation of life.

I'm not certain how this relates to your failure to maintain chrsitian principles. Perhaps you'd like to explain to me how endangering millions of people is not a sin.

Tell us more about Christian principles. You seem to know much about this topic.

Why joobz, there are no theory of evolution concepts suitable for treating patients.

And this is why you are obviously not a christian. A person who actually loved their fellow man wouldn't hold to such an amoral position.

Is that what it takes to be a Christian, tell us more.

Joobz, your paranormal skills are quite remarkable. You know how chemistry cooperates to spontaneously produce life, you know how the weather makes Wookies, you are an expert in evolutionist medicine and you are so knowledgeable about Christianity.

Who would have known that an alchemical engineer could be so wise?

Some smart legal beagle is going to figure out that the gross misinterpretation that evolutionists make of the mutation and selection sorting/optimization process has and will continue to contribute to the premature death of millions of people suffering from diseases subject to the principles of mutation and selection. That smart legal beagle will have a lawsuit that will dwarf the tobacco lawsuit.

Dr. Kleinman, tell us about a time you used a creationist-based drug regimen instead of an evolution-based regimen in a treatment of one of your patients. What was the nature of the infection? What was the standard treatment you thought wrong because it depended on the standard theory of evolution? What was the creationist-based treatment you used as a substitute? Was it as successful as you expected?

Why Mr Scott, so nice to have you back on this thread after starting another ridiculous evolutionist concept on another thread. Since you won’t tell us about the lies your atheist parents told you perhaps you would tell us how viruses caused us to evolve.

Oh, by the way, I often use Biblical methods for treating my patients. One of the most often used Biblical techniques I use is based on Exodus 34:1-2. I never use ridiculous evolutionist ideas in my medical practice.

 

[joobz]

Tell us more about Christian principles. You seem to know much about this topic.

Well, of course I do. I was raised christian. Indeed, I would say that I am more prepared to understand christianity than a person, who thinks that natural selection is the same as the first law of thermodynamics, does at understanding evolution.

Is that what it takes to be a Christian, tell us more.

What are you saying that killing millions makes you christian?

Oh, by the way, I often use Biblical methods for treating my patients. One of the most often used Biblical techniques I use is based on Exodus 34:1-2. I never use ridiculous evolutionist ideas in my medical practice.

So you take chisels to your patients regularly or do you merely carve laws into them?

 

[kleinman]

Annoying Creationists

Tell us more about Christian principles. You seem to know much about this topic.

Well, of course I do. I was raised christian. Indeed, I would say that I am more prepared to understand christianity than a person, who thinks that natural selection is the same as the first law of thermodynamics, does at understanding evolution.

So tell us, you were raised as a Christian, what does that mean?

Is that what it takes to be a Christian, tell us more.

What are you saying that killing millions makes you christian?

Of course not, tell us what it takes to be a Christian. You say you were raised Christian, tell us what it means to be a Christian.

Oh, by the way, I often use Biblical methods for treating my patients. One of the most often used Biblical techniques I use is based on Exodus 34:1-2. I never use ridiculous evolutionist ideas in my medical practice.

So you take chisels to your patients regularly or do you merely carve laws into them?

For someone who claims to be a Christian, you know very little about the Bible or the practice of medicine. Since you need a lot of help in both areas, it’s take two tablets and call me in the morning.

So since you couldn’t figure out those verses perhaps you can figure out what it takes to be a Christian.

 

[joobz]

So tell us, you were raised as a Christian, what does that mean?

It means that you prefer to worship the wookie devil and his anti-evolutionism.

Of course not,

but your wookie devil's antievolutionism would result in such death. Be glad that the AMA doesn't agree with you. But then, I'm sure the majority of AMA members are good christians.

For someone who claims to be a Christian, you know very little about the Bible or the practice of medicine. Since you need a lot of help in both areas, it’s take two tablets and call me in the morning.

it's obvious you are not a good judge on that fact. Afterall, you are the one who would let millions of people die by not providing proper medical care.

 

[Mister Earl]

Kleinman. You pretend to be a doctor, so let's focus on something you should be familiar with for a moment. Say a bacterial strain becomes prevalent in an area. Treatment heals all but a small handful of people, who had a small population of that strain that happened to be resistant. That resistant strain begins infecting other people. As a doctor or pretend doctor (I don't know you, so I'm making no assumptions), you've probably seen this often enough.

Now, the remaining bacterial strain and the generations of these bacterium are all resistant to this drug. Wouldn't that drug be considered an environmental pressure, and wouldn't the resistance inherent in latter generations be considered an evolved trait?

If evolution isn't possible, than what would you call this?

 

[kleinman]

Annoying Creationists

So tell us, you were raised as a Christian, what does that mean?

It means that you prefer to worship the wookie devil and his anti-evolutionism.

That’s impressive joobz, very convincing.

So, let’s get back on topic, the mutation and selection sorting/optimization process is profoundly slowed by combination selection pressures. Here is yet another example which demonstrates what Dr Schneider’s mathematical simulation of random point mutations and natural selection shows.
http://members.portplus.com/storage/2455/content/2455_190607093821_867.pdf

Research Assistant Jane Bardell has continued to investigate how small molecule inhibitors of cell signalling pathways might be used to specifically target both the survival of leukaemia cells and their ability to spread to multiple organs of the body. Some of these compounds inhibit the ability of leukaemia cells to move towards an attractant stimulus, and in this fashion may prevent leukaemia spread. Another attractive property of some of these compounds is that they may sensitise leukaemia cells to treatment with conventional agents and therefore may be useful in combination therapy to overcome drug resistance.

and

Importantly, combination therapy with TSA and interferon, through inhibiting cancer cell proliferation and limiting the cancer’s blood supply, proved even more effective than conventional chemotherapy or retinoids in the treatment of neuroblastoma.

 

[kleinman]

Kleinman. You pretend to be a doctor, so let's focus on something you should be familiar with for a moment. Say a bacterial strain becomes prevalent in an area. Treatment heals all but a small handful of people, who had a small population of that strain that happened to be resistant. That resistant strain begins infecting other people. As a doctor or pretend doctor (I don't know you, so I'm making no assumptions), you've probably seen this often enough.

Now, the remaining bacterial strain and the generations of these bacterium are all resistant to this drug. Wouldn't that drug be considered an environmental pressure, and wouldn't the resistance inherent in latter generations be considered an evolved trait?

If evolution isn't possible, than what would you call this?

I’ll pretend I’m a doctor and you pretend you are paying attention. You specifically asked me this question previously and I answered it for you. Look at my response to your last post.

 

[joobz]

So, let’s get back on topic, the mutation and selection sorting/optimization process is profoundly slowed by combination selection pressures.

And what happens when those pressures are constant??

Class? any one want to take a guess?

 

[rocketdodger]

If evolution isn't possible, than what would you call this?

Here is how this conversation will go, Earl:

Kleinman: "It is micro-evolution, which is possible, but can't produce a bird from a reptile."

Us: "Ok, but what if there were many such small changes, over time -- couldn't large change come of it?"

Kleinman: "If you think so, tell me which genes were targeted by which pressures when producing a bird from a reptile."

Us: "Nobody knows all of that yet -- which is also why you can't rule it out"

Kleinman: <Stupid attempt at making fun of valid scientific speculation, followed by a laughing dog gif>

 

[kleinman]

Annoying Creationists

Kleinman: <Stupid attempt at making fun of valid scientific speculation, followed by a laughing dog gif>

Rocketdodger, you don’t need to speculate how the mutation and selection sorting/optimization process works. We have a peer reviewed and published mathematical model written by Dr Tom Schneider, head of computational molecular biology at the National Cancer Institute and hundreds of real, measurable and repeatable examples of the mutation and selection phenomenon which show that combination selection pressures profoundly slow evolution by mutation and selection. Now rocket who flames out, when you say things like this:

On the other hand, we have posted plenty of data showing that in many sorting algorithms increasing the number of conditions increases the average rate of sorting.

You earn the laughing dog.

 

[kjkent1]

kleinman, you seem to be ignoring this citation: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/88511241

Please explain how the HBV manages to avoid the multiple selection pressures by way of a "novel frame shift." This should be quite impossible, if your theory is correct, because, under multiple selection pressures were frame shifts to occur, they might accelerate evolution in a manner not modeled by "ev."

 

[Shalamar]

I now know that Klienman is not a Doctor.

He fails.

Ok. So, does anyone else have any other interesting tidbits about Annoying Creationists? Or other evolution models to take a look at such things?

 

[Mr. Scott]

I often use Biblical methods for treating my patients. One of the most often used Biblical techniques I use is based on Exodus 34:1-2. I never use ridiculous evolutionist ideas in my medical practice.

Another blantant dodge. The passage has no bearing on the subject. You don't want an intellectual or scientific conversation, do you? We are really interested to know if you have enough faith in your creation-based theories to put them into practice. If you don't, it suggests you have no confidence in your own theories. If you do, then you should be proud to tell us what you've achieved. If you've used creation-based theories in your practice and refuse to report them, we'd really like to know why.

I'll ask the question again, and will make it a bullet list so you can more easily remember what the questions are so you can answer each of them.

Regarding a time you used a creationist-based drug regimen instead of an evolution-based regimen in a treatment of one of your patients:

- What was the nature of the infection?

- What was the standard treatment you thought wrong because it depended on the standard theory of evolution?

- What was the creationist-based treatment you used as a substitute?

- Was it as successful as you expected?

 

[Mister Earl]

No, Kleinman. You tell me to look here, there, everywhere but where I can find an answer. You make strawman attacks on weathermen, math, wookies, but you NEVER give a straight answer. When I came here, I gave you the benefit of a doubt. I'm starting to think I was wrong for doing so. Stop being facecious, drop the arrogance long enough to type a post up with an actual ANSWER. If my example isn't evolution, by definition, then what is it? And where is your math that "proves" evolution isn't possible?