Ann Coulter Lies Again

[DaChew]

Coulter said something that was factually untrue. I don't see how you could not understand how it is lying. [/B]

You believe that it was factually untrue. OK but that is not the same as lying otherwise everyone who is simply wrong about something is lying. For it to be a lie, Coulter would have to have known it was factually untrue and she would have to have been using the same definition of "outing" that you're using. As I've shown, there are obviously entirely separate circumstances in which someone can be "outed".

 

[TragicMonkey]

You believe that it was factually untrue. OK but that is not the same as lying otherwise everyone who is simply wrong about something is lying. For it to be a lie, Coulter would have to have known it was factually untrue and she would have to have been using the same definition of "outing" that you're using. As I've shown, there are obviously entirely separate circumstances in which someone can be "outed".

So, Coulter's definition of outing is "pointing out that someone's gay", whether they've previously admitted it or not? Even if they're standing atop a float in a pride parade, wearing a rainbow flag, screaming "I'm gay!", if you said "Look! That guy's gay!" you'd be outing him?

I know the whole left/right debate rages fiercely in all things, but this is just silly.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Though I find reading an Anne Coulter Column as distasteful as cleaning up dog vomit, I braved it anyway. You can ague semantics all day long as to whether she lied as such, but her words pretty clearly portray Savage's Column as being a big list of gay family members of prominent republicans.

Two weeks ago, the New York Times turned over half of its op-ed page to outing gays with some connection to Republicans

Reading the article she is talking about that doesn't seem to be the case. She may or may not be lying, depending on how you choose to define it, but she is at the very least engaging int he classic dishonest advertising tactic of making a leading statement and trying to get you to fill in the blanks in a certain way. She is definately spinning the article into something it isn't.

 

[gnome]

You believe that it was factually untrue. OK but that is not the same as lying otherwise everyone who is simply wrong about something is lying. For it to be a lie, Coulter would have to have known it was factually untrue and she would have to have been using the same definition of "outing" that you're using. As I've shown, there are obviously entirely separate circumstances in which someone can be "outed".

You're giving her an awful lot of latitude. Do you think it's possible she intended to deceive?

 

[Upchurch]

You believe that it was factually untrue. OK but that is not the same as lying otherwise everyone who is simply wrong about something is lying.

...simply wrong...

Given the nature of her career, do you think Coulter lacks that much political and social savvy to not know the common usage of the word "outing"?

As I've shown, there are obviously entirely separate circumstances in which someone can be "outed".

All of which are completely implausable considering the highly public and reported nature of these people's situations. Someone almost have to have their heads buried in the sand to not know the vice president's and Alan Keyes' daughters are lesbians.

...hm, maybe you have a point about Coulter after all.

 

[davefoc]

I didn't know Alan Keyes daughter was a lesbian. So at least on this I suppose I had my head buried in the sand as per Upchurch.

Why in the world the Republican party thought it was a good idea to have Keyes run for Senate is beyond me. I realize that there are some on this forum that equate the word Republican with wacky fundamentalist religious nut. There are still a few of us who vote Republican that don't think that is correct. But with this move it seems the Republican party was pretty much proving us wrong.

 

[BPSCG]

Why in the world the Republican party thought it was a good idea to have Keyes run for Senate is beyond me. I realize that there are some on this forum that equate the word Republican with wacky fundamentalist religious nut. There are still a few of us who vote Republican that don't think that is correct. But with this move it seems the Republican party was pretty much proving us wrong.

Obama was going to win Illinois regardless who ran against him. So the Repubs put up Keyes so that everyone else on the ticket looks reasonable by comparison.

Plus, Obama got something like 75%-80% of the vote on election day (best quip of election night was Brit Hume on Fox after the returns were showing an Obama landslide: "...and the only question in the Illinois senate race is whether or not Barak Obama will get 100% of the vote..."), so Repubs could point and say, "See how reasonable we are? We don't knee-jerk vote for a guy just because he's a Republican - unlike the 'Anybody-But-Bush' Democrats..."

 

[Upchurch]

Plus, Obama got something like 75%-80% of the vote on election day

{snip}

so Repubs could point and say, "See how reasonable we are? We don't knee-jerk vote for a guy just because he's a Republican - unlike the 'Anybody-But-Bush' Democrats..."

Did it work? Doesn't that mean that 20%-25% of Illinois Republicans knee-jerk voted for Anybody-But-A-Democrat?

 

[BPSCG]

Not surprisingly, Ann has something to say about this kerfuffle from the PICO's* - sort of...
Best line:

I keep expecting the real Democrats to appear and drag these nuts [Kennedy, Byrd] out of the room, saying, Oh sorry, he's escaped again — don't worry, he does this all the time, and then Howard Dean will stand up and have no pants on.

* (Perpetually Indignant, Chronically Outraged...)

 

[BPSCG]

Did it work? Doesn't that mean that 20%-25% of Illinois Republicans knee-jerk voted for Anybody-But-A-Democrat?

Well, no. It means that 20-25% of all the voters voted for Anybody-But-A-Democrat. If you assume that Republicans make up about 50% of voters in Illinois, that means that, at most, half of those Republicans voted for Keyes - probably less. A candidate who gets less than half the vote from his own party is looking at a landslide of historic proportions. If the Repubs had all voted for "Anyone But A Democrat," it would havce been a much tighter race.

As compared with nationally, where 48% voted for Anybody-But-Bush." How do you think Kerry did among the Dems?

 

[Upchurch]

Well, no. It means that 20-25% of all the voters voted for Anybody-But-A-Democrat. If you assume that Republicans make up about 50% of voters in Illinois, that means that, at most, half of those Republicans voted for Keyes - probably less.

Ah, right you are.

A candidate who gets less than half the vote from his own party is looking at a landslide of historic proportions. If the Repubs had all voted for "Anyone But A Democrat," it would havce been a much tighter race.

But back to your original point, does that mean that 50-ish% of Republican knee-jerk voted for Anybody-But-A-Democrat despite the fact that the out-of-state Republican candidate was put up so that everyone else on the ticket looks reasonable by comparison?

 

[BPSCG]

Ah, right you are.
But back to your original point, does that mean that 50-ish% of Republican knee-jerk voted for Anybody-But-A-Democrat despite the fact that the out-of-state Republican candidate was put up so that everyone else on the ticket looks reasonable by comparison?

Yup. Fortunately, that wasn't enough to get the whackjob elected.

By contrast, Howard Dean is now the DNC chairman. And moonbat Dennis Kucinich is still a Democratic congressman.

 

[Cleon]

Yup. Fortunately, that wasn't enough to get the whackjob elected.

By contrast, Howard Dean is now the DNC chairman. And moonbat Dennis Kucinich is still a Democratic congressman.

I'd agree with the Kucinich comparison, but I wouldn't put Dean in the same camp as Keyes. Dean is a principled liberal; you might not agree with his politics, but you have to respect him for the consistency and honesty of message that was completely missing from the Kerry campaign. Scream or no scream.

Kucinich, however, is a lunatic. I say that even though my politics, as a Green, are somewhat closer to his than to Dean's.

 

[BPSCG]

I'd agree with the Kucinich comparison, but I wouldn't put Dean in the same camp as Keyes. Dean is a principled liberal; you might not agree with his politics, but you have to respect him for the consistency and honesty of message that was completely missing from the Kerry campaign. Scream or no scream.

Kucinich, however, is a lunatic. I say that even though my politics, as a Green, are somewhat closer to his than to Dean's.

Okay, half a loaf, etc. But when Dean shows up at some rally not wearing any pants, don't say Ann Coulter didn't warn you...

 

[Cleon]

Okay, half a loaf, etc. But when Dean shows up at some rally not wearing any pants, don't say Ann Coulter didn't warn you...

If people start showing up at Democratic rallies without pants on, I might reconsider my "monkeys will fly out of my butt before I start participating in the DP" stance.

 

[Skeptic]

(Shrug) in this case, whether she "lied" or not is meaningless, since the fact that the people involved have been "outed" by themselves long ago is so devastating to her argument, that it hardly matters whether she actually knew her argument was false or simply didn't want to know it was false. One cannot abdicate one's responsiblity not to lie by simply refusing to look at evidence one doesn't want to know.

 

[davefoc]

Nicely said Skeptic.

 

[rikzilla]

Coulter is a polemicist....whaddayaguysexpect!!??

Her thing is to entertain by outrage,...and by being outrageous. Same as Mikey Moore. (but way easier on the eyes)

I enjoy reading Ann, but can easily see how she pisses off liberal democrats. Hell, watching those same LD's foam and fulminate about how outrageous Ann is is half the fun!

I'm sure the LD's feel the same way when guys like me post the latest list of lies from F911.

Here's a hint people; it's not real! Polemicists like Coulter, Moore, O'Reilly, or Franken are not serious sources of anything but entertainment.

-z

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Coulter is a polemicist....whaddayaguysexpect!!??

Her thing is to entertain by outrage,...and by being outrageous. Same as Mikey Moore. (but way easier on the eyes)

I enjoy reading Ann, but can easily see how she pisses off liberal democrats. Hell, watching those same LD's foam and fulminate about how outrageous Ann is is half the fun!

I'm sure the LD's feel the same way when guys like me post the latest list of lies from F911.

Here's a hint people; it's not real! Polemicists like Coulter, Moore, O'Reilly, or Franken are not serious sources of anything but entertainment.

-z

I don't buy the "they are only entertainers" line for any of those people. Lots of people on the left take Moore and Franken seriously and base their politics on what they say. Lots of people on the right take O'Reilly and Coulter seriously and base their politics on what THEY say. No matter their intentions, they ahve an effect and all of them should be called on their BS whenever they spout it. I'm not about to give any one of them a free pass to spout nonsense that people are going to beleive based on them being mere "entertainers". That would be the antithesis of skepticism.

 

[rikzilla]

I don't buy the "they are only entertainers" line for any of those people. Lots of people on the left take Moore and Franken seriously and base their politics on what they say. Lots of people on the right take O'Reilly and Coulter seriously and base their politics on what THEY say. No matter their intentions, they ahve an effect and all of them should be called on their BS whenever they spout it. I'm not about to give any one of them a free pass to spout nonsense that people are going to beleive based on them being mere "entertainers". That would be the antithesis of skepticism.

I never said you shouldn't call them on their BS. We should, and do. All I said is that serious and intelligent people do not take them seriously. Their opinions are too slanted to be anywhere near real. To me they are entertainment only.

It's porno for hard right/hard lefties. I don't give a crap what the hard right or hard left believe....they have more in common with each other than those of us in the middle. They're all nutters.

-z