And the boats keep coming

[DC]

i wonder for a while now what his solution to the problem is.

 

[Wildy]

i wonder for a while now what his solution to the problem is.

He doesn't have his own solution. His preferred solution is a return to the Pacific Solution, even though the prevailing opinion among refugee advocates, government officials, and others is that it won't work.

 

[DC]

He doesn't have his own solution. His preferred solution is a return to the Pacific Solution, even though the prevailing opinion among refugee advocates, government officials, and others is that it won't work.

well from what i read that "solution" actually seemed to work, atleast in the way that less people took the risk to go to Australia with a boat.

 

[Wildy]

well from what i read that "solution" actually seemed to work, atleast in the way that less people took the risk to go to Australia with a boat.

If you say looked at the Wikipedia page then you already know one of the problems returning to the solution. If you know that you have a 70% chance of being resettled anywhere, you'd still take the risk. And the likelihood of it being Australia will probably increase now since I don't think that NZ (the second most common resettlement nation) will be as willing to accept these people.

 

[DC]

If you say looked at the Wikipedia page then you already know one of the problems returning to the solution. If you know that you have a 70% chance of being resettled anywhere, you'd still take the risk. And the likelihood of it being Australia will probably increase now since I don't think that NZ (the second most common resettlement nation) will be as willing to accept these people.

good point.

 

[Akhenaten]

I prefer to make my point by answering your rhetoric, hyperbole and sophistry in kind, thank you very much.

No sweat, just trying to be helpful

Ambitions ≠ capabilities.

What my link showed was that the group in question wanted to be rescued by Australia rather than by Indonesia.

That's a might sharp razor you have there.... for the hair splitting I mean.

I've pointed out the difference between your claim that:

"People are leaving Indonesia and expecting an escort."​

and the actual situation which is that single group of would-be immigrants expressed, during a phone call initiated by an ABC reporter, a quite unrealistic desire to be rescued by Australia rather than by Indonesia.

It's absurd that you would attempt to shrug this off as splitting hairs.

No, I didn't miss it, because it didn't happen. I was the one who noticed your error and corrected it.

Indeed you were, perhaps I should have said "acknowledged" my error. Whatever.

Yes, you should have told the truth. Then you wouldn't be in the position of having to defend yourself twice in respect of a single incident.

Accroche-toi à ton rêve.

It's all I have left.

A valid argument would serve you far better.

Nor do I. And?

I misread - it's been a very long day today.

Nobody is compelling you to post. If you write crap you'll be called on it.

You blame Indonesia? Nothing for Gillard? Surely she has some hand in this? Perhaps you - blinded by her integrity - consider her free of blame too?

You'll be providing a link to where I said these things, will you?

But I don't blame Indonesia as much as I do Australia, the boats wouldn't leave there if the carrots weren't dangled.

All I see is you blaming Julia Gillard for everything that you feel is wrong with the world. That this has severely undermined your ability to have your arguments on this issue taken seriously is probably something that you need to address.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Would like to hear more of your thoughts on this. In what ways is Australia encouraging people to arrive by boat?

Fast track through detention.
Government homes & benefits.
Virtual guarantee that they can stay once they arrive.

There is more that we have discussed here many times.

Should we seek any active measures to discourage these people?

Of course.

well from what i read that "solution" actually seemed to work, atleast in the way that less people took the risk to go to Australia with a boat.

Correct.

If you say looked at the Wikipedia page then you already know one of the problems returning to the solution. If you know that you have a 70% chance of being resettled anywhere, you'd still take the risk. And the likelihood of it being Australia will probably increase now since I don't think that NZ (the second most common resettlement nation) will be as willing to accept these people.

Wiki!?!
Are you serious?

 

[Hallo Alfie]

You'll be providing a link to where I said these things, will you?

It's a question - hence the question mark.
Let me put it another way. Is there any reason that fully absolves Gillard from being held to account for this situation? She is the PM, she has the power to change things and she sits on her hands. In the meantime people drown at sea.

Worst PM ever.

 

[Akhenaten]

<snip>

Worst PM ever.

So you've said, ad nauseum.

It's why I made this observation:

All I see is you blaming Julia Gillard for everything that you feel is wrong with the world. That this has severely undermined your ability to have your arguments on this issue taken seriously is probably something that you need to address.

Never mind. Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Never mind. Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this.

I said earlier that she should be held accountable for what she is responsible for, nothing more, nothing less.

I would welcome your thoughts here, so I ask again:

Is there any reason that fully absolves Gillard from being held to account for this situation?

 

[Sideroxylon]

Fast track through detention.
Government homes & benefits.
Virtual guarantee that they can stay once they arrive.

How do you feel about people, including children, being held in detention for extended periods of time. Surely our aim should be to assess their status in the shortest period possible. Can we justify prolonging this period simply for the purposes of a deterrent to others who might be considering making the journey?

 

[Hallo Alfie]

How do you feel about people, including children, being held in detention for extended periods of time. Surely our aim should be to assess their status in the shortest period possible. Can we justify prolonging this period simply for the purposes of a deterrent to others who might be considering making the journey?

Our aim should be to avoid children being put in jeopardy in the first place, shouldn't it?

It is from this point that I reckon discussions should commence.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Our aim should be to avoid children being put in jeopardy in the first place, shouldn't it?

It is from this point that I reckon discussions should commence.

Yes, but it seemed you were suggesting that "fast tracking" people through detention was something that is encouraging boat arrivals.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Yes, but it seemed you were suggesting that "fast tracking" people through detention was something that is encouraging boat arrivals.

Doesn't it? It certainly doesn't dissuade anybody.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Doesn't it? It certainly doesn't dissuade anybody.

Well then might I have an answer to my previous question?

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Well then might I have an answer to my previous question?

I already have answered. Children would not drown at sea or be smashed on rocks if they did not get on boats. Nor would children need to be placed in detention if they did not arrive by boat.

Stopping them at the source will save lives, deterrents will assist in this.

I am not in favour of incarcerating children, but I am even less in favour of them dying at sea. Sometimes one might need to seem cruel to be kind.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Prolonging the processing of refugees as a policy measure is wrong. It not a matter of seemingly cruel it is. It is unfair and must do psychological harm. It is a shame for a country like Australia that holds and espouses human rights.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Prolonging the processing of refugees as a policy measure is wrong. It not a matter of seemingly cruel it is. It is unfair and must do psychological harm. It is a shame for a country like Australia that holds and espouses human rights.

I agree. I guess it would be better if they died at sea, huh.

Stop them getting on the boats and the detention issues are academic. If there are children that arrive - release them as early as possible.

Prevention is better than cure, as they say.

 

[Sideroxylon]

I agree. I guess it would be better if they died at sea, huh.
Stop them getting on the boats and the detention issues are academic. If there are children that arrive - release them as early as possible.

Prevention is better than cure, as they say.

Name the logical fallacy. This is why people get pissed off with you.

 

[DC]

what was the cost of the old system with those camps on those islands?