Ancient Pyramids and other structures, astronomical alignment & similarity.

[JoeTheJuggler]

What I always wonder about in this type of ancient contact speculation is why the contact somehow is always limited to things like building pyramids and the like.
I mean it's assumed that somehow the egyptians/mesopotanians/mesoamericans sailed across the ocean and ALL the evidence of this is somewhat similar buildings?
Why not take minor things like... grain? bronzeworking? horses? potatoes? maize? cocoa?
Each would be easy to carry across the ocean, would have a far greater effect on the other culture and would frankly be more useful than the knowledge of how to build a big pile of rocks.
So why didn't they?

That was more or less one of the points made in that section on pseudoscience in archaeology I quoted from the Bad Archaeology website above.

Add to the list language & literature, religion, and DNA.

Also time travel technology! At least one of the two civilizations in question had to have had it for them to be in contact, and yet there's no other manifestation or record of it.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Also time travel technology! At least one of the two civilizations in question had to have had it for them to be in contact, and yet there's no other manifestation or record of it.

Maybe they traveled through time and destroyed all record of it?

 

[Moss]

Somehow I feel reminded of this quote from Terry Pratchett:

"The Disc's greatest lovers were undoubtedly Mellius and Gretelina, whose pure, passionate and soul searing affair would have scorched the pages of History if they had not, because of some unexplained quirk of fate, been born two hundred years apart on different continents."

 

[Akhenaten]

Maybe they traveled through time and destroyed all record of it?

Mr Heyerdahl is currently attempting to re-create this journey as well.

No word back so far.

 

[Belz...]

No.

Really ?

They don't even look similar, King. You're making things up.

And you're following very well.

Sounds to me like you did.

 

[Marduk]

Really ?



Sounds to me like you did.

As I pointed out in my first post in ths thread back on page 1, he got it wholesale from "world mysteries" which is one of the worst woo sites on the web
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5537382&postcount=35

so no, hes not making it up, neither is he being original.

 

[tsig]

That's it, you're back on my ignore list.

You ask a question and someone answers it an your response is to put them on ignore?

Telling someone you have them on ignore makes you look like a petulant child.

 

[Checkmite]

Huh? It has a square base and sloping sides. When is that not a pyramid?

When it has a flat top, and staircase(s) to carry persons thereto. I would call such a thing a ziggurat, not a pyramid. In fact, if we're getting into personal 'ruthers, I wouldn't call any of the temples in Mesoamerica "pyramids". Pyramids should have pointy tops, and no external staircases. The Egyptian pyramids were designed this way because nothing was supposed to happen on the outside of the building - everything that "happened" (real or imaginary) involving an Egyptian pyramid happened on the inside and underneath. The Mesoamerican "pyramids", on the other hand, were actually elevated platforms. People were supposed to go up them and do stuff on the large plaza at the top (typically involving major surgery sans anesthesia).

Ruined and half-built Egyptian pyramids still count as pyramids because they were originally intended to be pyramids with pointy tops.

 

[Akhenaten]

Huh? It has a square base and sloping sides. When is that not a pyramid?

Actually, when I first saw that I was minded to post pictures of Nelson's Column and Cleopatra's Needle.

 

[tsig]

And you're following very well.

The above statement was in reference to finding two athletic stadiums, of similar size and shape on two different continents, before Columbus.

What part of stacking rocks on rocks is mystical?

 

[King of the Americas]

You ask a question and someone answers it an your response is to put them on ignore?

Telling someone you have them on ignore makes you look like a petulant child.

I really could care less what you think it makes me look like. If you can't maintain a civil tongue, repeatedly mis-characterize my stances, then you'll get ignored too.

I have only been openly appreciative of those who have offered constructing corrections, or data that furthered the discussion, including his comments.

 

[King of the Americas]

What part of stacking rocks on rocks is mystical?

WHERE in this post or the above quote you used did I reference "stacking rocks on rocks" ...as... "mystical"?

*If I said, "tsig, you're an idiot, for thinking the Greeks built the Great Pyramid." How accurate would that be?

 

[Marduk]

I really could care less what you think it makes me look like. If you can't maintain a civil tongue, repeatedly mis-characterize my stances, then you'll get ignored too.

You asked a question, I answered it, you didn't like the answer so I went on your ignore list, you are a child as has already been pointed out

I have only been openly appreciative of those who have offered constructing corrections, or data that furthered the discussion, including his comments.

If you were appreciative of people furthering the discussion then you would have understood by now that you don't have a discussion, you just have a long disproved hypothesis.
if you were appreciative of furthering the discussion I would not be on your ignore list as I have a background in comparative mythology and have studied all these cultures for years.
what youre interested in then is not furthering the discussion, nor factual information, youre just interested in hijacking other peoples threads because you are incapable of doing your own research and unable to evaluate evidence without someone holding your hand.
Essentially you are a complete waste of everybodies time.

personally I think you put me on your ignore list because you can't answer the one direct question I have asked you
who discovered Troy ?

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Quoted for truth and KotA's benefit:

You asked a question, I answered it, you didn't like the answer so I went on your ignore list, you are a child as has already been pointed out

If you were appreciative of people furthering the discussion then you would have understood by now that you don't have a discussion, you just have a long disproved hypothesis.
if you were appreciative of furthering the discussion I would not be on your ignore list as I have a background in comparative mythology and have studied all these cultures for years.
what youre interested in then is not furthering the discussion, nor factual information, youre just interested in hijacking other peoples threads because you are incapable of doing your own research and unable to evaluate evidence without someone holding your hand.
Essentially you are a complete waste of everybodies time.

personally I think you put me on your ignore list because you can't answer the one direct question I have asked you
who discovered Troy ?

 

[Akhenaten]

Ancient Pyramids and other structures, astronomical alignment & similarity.


This is the thread topic, quoted for the benefit of lots of people.

 

[EHocking]

When it has a flat top, and staircase(s) to carry persons thereto. I would call such a thing a ziggurat, not a pyramid...

I guess this was also the point Akhenaten was also making in a reply to my posts previously, and I do concede the point.

The mesoamerican stuctures are merely temples with pyramidal shaped bases.

So the question is, is there sufficient similarity between the structures to elicit any interesting hypotheses? For me, no. It is mere coincidence that one of the best ways to stack up a pile stone (or dirt) is to use a square base and slope the sides.

Speculation on contemporary contact between Mesoamericans and Egyptians is just that. There is no evidence to support the speculation.

Now, the Mesopotamian ziggurats were contemporary(ish) with the building of Egyptian pyramids, but since their purpose is quite different, as is much of their structure (ziggurats have ramps, for instance), is there any evidence that one influenced the other as far as structure shape is concerned?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

My bolding:

Now, the Mesopotamian ziggurats were contemporary(ish) with the building of Egyptian pyramids, but since their purpose is quite different, as is much of their structure (ziggurats have ramps, for instance), is there any evidence that one influenced the other as far as structure shape is concerned?

Not by a long shot--at least a thousand years. And the two specific ones he's been comparing are separated by more like (Just the part I bolded--your other points are well taken.)

That's another characteristic of pseudoscience in archaeology according to the Bad Archaeology webiste: treating all antiquities as contemporaneous.


And for the record, this

looks nothing like this

and is only vaguely similar (the way, for example all potsherds are similar*) to this

*That is, they're only "similar" to people who have little to no education about them.

 

[Wildy]

Indeed skeptics claim that out of the literally billions of references, pictures, videos, paintings, carvings, or sworn statements by eyewitnesses "ZERO" are authentic proof that non-human piloted craft exist.

When did skeptical become outright ignorance?

When you find yourself on the opposite side of the fence.

 

[EHocking]

My bolding:

Not by a long shot--at least a thousand years.

My Googling failed me!

And the two specific ones he's been comparing are separated by more like (Just the part I bolded--your other points are well taken.)

That's another characteristic of pseudoscience in archaeology according to the Bad Archaeology webiste: treating all antiquities as contemporaneous.

That has certainly been the problem with the Mesoamerica/Egypt comparison. KotA gets around this by speculating, while ignoring evidence to the opposite, that there was contact between the civilisations in an attempt to "show" influence.

And for the record, this
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...zah_Pyramids.jpg/400px-All_Gizah_Pyramids.jpg

looks nothing like this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...mids.JPG/175px-Mexico_xochicalco_pyramids.JPG

and is only vaguely similar (the way, for example all potsherds are similar*) to this
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._072006.JPG/200px-Piramide_del_Sol_072006.JPG.

That was the point that Akhanaten pulled me up on earlier when I posted Wiki's lists of "pyramids".

*That is, they're only "similar" to people who have little to no education about them

... or wish to believe in fantastical speculations instead of considering the wonder of their actuality and the ingenuity of the people behind their construction.

ETA: The other problem has been that as soon as someone shoots down one of KotA's "hypotheses", he responds with, "so what about this" or "is there any similarity between these" without actaully considering the questions before posting.

 

[King of the Americas]

When you find yourself on the opposite side of the fence.

Perspective IS everything...