An agument for god's existence

DI3 said:
Are you saying there is no such thing as being and non-being or you have a problem with someone saying they understand the operations of each.
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See Roger's answer.

Your first and biggest problem is that you are using mushy words. Being, non-being, eternal, etc., seem to have obvious meanings, but they don't, really. They are loaded with cultural and historical assumptions, many which aren't true of the actual world. They are words invented by humans, based on our limited experience of the world through our limited senses. You can't find out the truth of how the world is constructed by examining words like these, and putting together simple arguments like this. Aristotle tried it. Review his physics sometimes for errors.
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And welcome to the zoo!
 
I haven't read every post in this thread, but it seems like everyone is focusing on philosophical aspects of eternal, and that sort of thing. However, in the argument against material monism, there is this claim:

DI3 said:
4) sameness remains sameness; it cannot return to differentiation.
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Which is all very well, except that it happens to be wrong. On the quantum mechanical level, sameness can become differentiated spontaneously.


Perhaps I'll look it up, if someone objects to my claim. I'm no physicist, but by coincidence, I happened to be reading a book last night that discussed this very subject.
 
Meadmaker said:
Which is all very well, except that it happens to be wrong. On the quantum mechanical level, sameness can become differentiated spontaneously.


Perhaps I'll look it up, if someone objects to my claim. I'm no physicist, but by coincidence, I happened to be reading a book last night that discussed this very subject.
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If you could find an article I would greatly appreciate that.
 
Major premise: if all is matter then thinking must be motion of atoms in the brain
Minor premise: thinking is not motion of atoms in the brain
Conclusion: it is not the case that all is matter.
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Is electricity movement of atoms?
 
I'll save you a little time.
It's not.
Your major premise is false.
 
Thanks and welcome to the forum!

There are also some nice articles on some recent theories that the brain 'thinks' as a quantum computer. Interesting stuff.
 
DI3 said:
If you could find an article I would greatly appreciate that.
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The book I'm reading is called "Origins", and is on the sale rack at Borders right now for 3.99. (At least, where I live. I don't know how uniform the sale books across the country are.)

It's a non-mathematical treatment of cosmology, the big bang, the origins of the universe, etc. Being non-mathematical, it really doesn't explain details so well.

However, it does say: (p. 128)

"What made the these deviations, the inhomogeneities and anisotropies that provide the seeds for all the structure in the cosmos? The answer arrives from the realm of quantum mechanics, undreamt of by Isaac Newton but unavoidable if we hope to understand where we came from. Quantum mechanics tells us that on the smallest scales of size, no distribution of matter can remain homogeneous and isotropic. Instead, random fluctuations in the distribution of matter will appear, disappear, and reappear in different amount, as matter becomes a quivering mass of vanishing and reborn particles. At any particular time, some regions of space will have slightly more particles, and therefore a slightly greater density than other regions."

So, we begin with an isotropic and homogeneous region, i.e. sameness, and microseconds later, we have a differentiated region. Before you know it, that becomes the seed of a supercluster of galaxies. Therefore, the argument against material monism has an untrue premise.
 
zizzybaluba said:
ok, I'll bite on that one.
If the mind is not material, why do head injuries affect the mind of the injured?
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Now you know you shouldn't do that, don't you? DI3 has just thrown in something utterly extraneous, but you just can't resist its idiocy, can you? I sympathise, but all the same have a :mad: . Don't let idiots veer off when the pack is on them.
 
For what it's worth, it's quite possible that eternity stretches before us. What isn't possible is for there to have been an eternity behind us. For that to be so an infinite amount of time would have to have passed before DI3 started this thread - so, by definition, the Universe would still be waiting (no doubt with bated breath).

Hi, DI3,and Welcome; I'm CapelDodger, and we're going to get on famously, I'm sure.
 
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