An agument for god's existence

The argument, I imagine the idea that the mind is not material would bring up some opposition.
Once that first part falls, though, everything after is irrelevant. Still, I shall oblige, at least in part. I may do more later, but for now I'm at work, and should at least pretend I'm not entirely goofing off. :spbiggrin:

Minor premise-
1) The motion of atoms can be described in terms of fast or slow, straight or curved, up or down etc.
2) None of these qualities or combination can be identified as true or false which is an essential quality of thought.
3) Therefore thinking is not motion of any kind.
Nothing can be identified as true or false in isolation. Truth requires a comparison. The movement of atoms in the brain creates models which either succeed or fail (are true or false) at usefully representing reality. This argument, then, would need to contest that such models are not so created by the movement of atoms.
 
ok, I'll bite on that one.
If the mind is not material, why do head injuries affect the mind of the injured?

It wasn't something to bite for. I wasn't trying to set anyone up for anything.


But to answer the question (I asked this as well) the response is that.

The brain is a conduit for the mind and when you damage the conduit you can't properly transmit messages.
 
I may be understanding you wrong but saying that seems to imply that you have no problem with spontaneous generation.
Rather that nothing you have said has ruled it out. Proof by assertion is not proof.
 
It wasn't something to bite for. I wasn't trying to set anyone up for anything.


But to answer the question (I asked this as well) the response is that.

The brain is a conduit for the mind and when you damage the conduit you can't properly transmit messages.

Evidence?
 
Have you seen this agrument or has it yet to be found?
I have not seen it. I expect I never will, since non-being seems rather difficult to come across.

Of course, another chink in the "eing from non-being is impossible" armor is provided by quantum fluctuation, the (in our experience, brief) appearance of a particle with its anti-particle in a vacuum.
 
A full deconstruction is unnecessary. The entire argument hinges upon the necessity of an eternal something, which falls apart right about here:

"Being from non-being is impossible."

Until that claim is substantiated, the rest is irrelevant.

You're right Marquis. Nothing to see here but again the fundamental weakness of
metaphysics to create fictitious absolutes such as Being and Non-Being.
 
They??? This isn't your arguement?
Why don't "they" present it themselves?

I pointed out some problems but I don't have nearly the background in the field that you guys seemed to so I wanted to see how it held up. I will take notes from this discussion and present it to him though.
 
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Nothing to see here but again the fundamental weakness of
metaphysics to create fictitious absolutes such as Being and Non-Being.

Are you saying there is no such thing as being and non-being or you have a problem with someone saying they understand the operations of each.
 
I pointed out some problems but I don't have nearly the background in the field that you guys seemed to so I wanted to see how it held up.

ok, sorry for the rant in that case; I assumed you were supporting it. Its 5pm on a friday here, I'm still at work, I'm grumpy and want to go home.

Welcome to the forum.

:welcomepirate1:
 
ok, sorry for the rant in that case; I assumed you were supporting it. Its 5pm on a friday here, I'm still at work, I'm grumpy and want to go home.

Welcome to the forum.

:welcomepirate1:

No need for aplogizes, I posted it here beacuse I liked the sharp criticizim (without vulgarities) I read in most, if not all the posts here.
 
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Your first and biggest problem is that you are using mushy words. Being, non-being, eternal, etc., seem to have obvious meanings, but they don't, really. They are loaded with cultural and historical assumptions, many which aren't true of the actual world. They are words invented by humans, based on our limited experience of the world through our limited senses. You can't find out the truth of how the world is constructed by examining words like these, and putting together simple arguments like this. Aristotle tried it. Review his physics sometimes for errors.

Nonetheless, your arguments are full of elementary errors.

1) Nothing is eternal
2) All is temporal
3) All had a beginning

3 does not follow. The set of negative integers do not have a "beginning", yet they terminate. I wouldn't pursue this line of reasoning further, however, as terms like "temporal" and "eternal" do not take into account the nature of space-time, which was not known at the time we formed the concepts of these words. Suffice to say, modern physics does not say it is impossible for the universe to have started from nothing.

Major premise: if the material world were eternal it would be self-maintaining
Minor premise: the material world is not self-maintaining
Conclusion : the material world is not eternal

These are very flawed. It's philosophically possible for an atom to be eternal without macro structures, like a planet, to be eternal. There is no need for eternal particles to create a self-maintaining world. I say philosophically possible, because entrophy tells us eventually, atoms will dissapate if the universe does not collapse.


I could go on, but it all seems to be more of the same kind of word play. There is no serious attempt to figure out the actual properties of the world; there are just assertions based on words and concepts that we invented in our cave man days that we know poorly represent how the universe actually works.
 
Your first and biggest problem is that you are using mushy words. Being, non-being, eternal, etc., seem to have obvious meanings, but they don't, really. They are loaded with cultural and historical assumptions, many which aren't true of the actual world. They are words invented by humans, based on our limited experience of the world through our limited senses. You can't find out the truth of how the world is constructed by examining words like these, and putting together simple arguments like this. Aristotle tried it. Review his physics sometimes for errors.

Nonetheless, your arguments are full of elementary errors.



3 does not follow. The set of negative integers do not have a "beginning", yet they terminate. I wouldn't pursue this line of reasoning further, however, as terms like "temporal" and "eternal" do not take into account the nature of space-time, which was not known at the time we formed the concepts of these words. Suffice to say, modern physics does not say it is impossible for the universe to have started from nothing.



These are very flawed. It's philosophically possible for an atom to be eternal without macro structures, like a planet, to be eternal. There is no need for eternal particles to create a self-maintaining world. I say philosophically possible, because entrophy tells us eventually, atoms will dissapate if the universe does not collapse.


I could go on, but it all seems to be more of the same kind of word play. There is no serious attempt to figure out the actual properties of the world; there are just assertions based on words and concepts that we invented in our cave man days that we know poorly represent how the universe actually works.
Where is your "TLA winner" ribbons next to your avatar? I can't think of a post I've read from you that wasn't concise and informative. I find it awfully surprising that you haven’t won one yet.

I bet it is a conspiracy.
 
Where is your "TLA winner" ribbons next to your avatar? I can't think of a post I've read from you that wasn't concise and informative. I find it awfully surprising that you haven’t won one yet.

I bet it is a conspiracy.
I don't know whether roger has ever won, but in any case, the medals only stay until the next winner is elected.
 

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