Amway TV ad

[icerat]

Ambots used to be told to "edify your upline"... until one of the higher-ups picked up a dictionary and found out what "edify" actually means.

I recommend everyone edify everyone ... and I have a dictionary. Wouldn't it make the world a nicer place?

The high rollers in Amway got that way by building huge downline networks. You can't make the big money in Amway without that.

You can't make huge money in most business without building a large distributrion and/or consumer base.

You have to have a big network of people buying the products, because the customers (IBOs or not) usually end up continuing to buy only a couple things in the long term.

That's not my experience, there's a whole range. Some people buy a small number of products regularly, some buy a lot. Having around 200 people registered, of which 15-20 are actively marketing, is generally more than enough to generate a full-time equivalent income in most western countries.

The products are pretty expensive.

Depends on the product, see the examples earlier.

ETA: And of course, the huge downlines will have enough IBOs buying the Amway tools for that to be a big part of the profits for the pinnacle of the upline.

You'll actually tend to make more by hitting the speaking circuit and training other groups than from tool sales to downline. Contrary to popular myth, most of the "higher pins" don't make more from these sources than from Amway. Some do, but in most cases (especially these days) they're usually the guys who actually own the companies manufacturing and organising this stuff, and they're usually selling these products and services to more than just their personal Amway group.

 

[Porkchopjim]

We also know, from TEAM vs Quixtar, that 74% of registered IBOs that place orders after joining are not "participants in the scheme" in any way shape or form. They're "outside the pyramid" to use your false and derogatory term.

I do believe that THIS is actually the non sequitur that you spoke of earlier.

Add that up it would appear that at least 60% is to non-participants, and likely more than 80% of volume is from non-participants.

Only if you accept your false assumption above. Funny you should quote that particular 'legal' reference when it was the same one that said substantially less than 10% of products goes to people who are not in Amway.

Wasn't that the same 'lawsuit' that claimed Quixtar/Amway was an illegal product based pyramid scheme?

I think it is: http://webraw.com/quixtar/resources/files/Complaint.pdf

Lawsuit says 3.4%. Icerat says 80%. Hmmm...

Would this would be another example of “For Amway to look good, someone has to lie”?

Which part of "the amount of internal consumption in any multi-level compensation business does not determine whether or not the FTC will consider the plan a pyramid scheme" don't you understand? How can you just so willfully keep ignoring hard evidence?

It's the amount of external consumption that gives it legitimacy. Which is why that particular, explicit requirement is mentioned and is still referred to as part of the 'Amway test.' So, we're back to lying to make Amway good again?


Seeing as you are convinced that your particular dietary and health needs cannot be met by taking a $.02 a day pill but requires something along the lines of a $2+ a day regime...

...perhaps you could recommend what particular diagnostic test is appropriate to determine if you are deficient in 'phytonutrients'?

What were your 'phytonutrient' levels before switching to the overpriced alfalfa pill? What are they now? Are they NOW sufficient, and by what standard?

Is it kind of like the 'Perfect Water' tip test? I'll bet it is!

 

[Tex2]

I'm BAAAAACK!!! LOL

Actually, I've been commenting on ALL the posts since I was "banned", which you can find here: https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=7395124008407193399&postID=3385022669004840251&page=1

I'll probably keep posting over there, instead of here, at least most of the time, because hardly anyone responded to my posts anyway, and I am free to use the language appropriate for the intelligence level found here!!! LOL

By the way icerat/insider/ibofb, have you come up with a good response to the Bruce Anderson example? LOL

How about you, Newton, have you decided you can't discuss Amway without assuming the tool scam is in play? LOL

 

[Porkchopjim]

Texie!

I am SO pleased that you are back! I know - you've been furiously cutting and pasting these posts onto your 'monoblog' so you can argue with yourself!

Anyway - we should ALL be glad Tex is back. I was afraid you people who have enjoyed this so far would miss out on:

Tex's Marketing Plan!

I swear upon everything holy and some things that aren't that the Tex Marketing Plan is well worth your attention!

16 years of failed Amway business...
...combined with 10,000 'tools' to advise the content...
...and the computer skills of a - well, we'll just say they're stellar!

MONTHS of work on this opus! This is his BEST SHOT at providing a compelling - without a rock unturned - presentation as to why he, and his particular understanding of the complex world of self-consumption and buying things for profit on the internet is THE way to go!

BONUS: It's Amway Approved!

It is probably the most amazing 19 slides you will ever see, and it will provide valuable insight into the depth of understanding that 16+ years of Amway training gets a dedicated follower.

 

[NobbyNobbs]

From that blog,

As usual, they completely missed the point. The point is an atheist, by definition, does not care about others, and Newton proved this by making money setting up a program for the LCKs to pay each other, and now he has no particular concern for those STILL getting scammed. Absolutely disgusting.

Wow. Just wow.

Tex, an atheist by definition is one who doesn't believe in a god. It has nothing to do with how they treat other people.

I'd love to see you cite a standard dictionary that says otherwise.

 

[Tex2]

Don't forget to read the new Forbes article, and the on-target first comment:

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/21/image-overhaul-rebranding-cmo-network-rebranding.html

LOL

 

[NewtonTrino]

and now he has no particular concern for those STILL getting scammed

For the record the only reason I'm participating in this is so that people out there who are considering getting involved give it a second thought. I have a huge amount of concern for the ongoing damage this scam is doing to people. Tex, in my opinion, is still heavily effected by his time being manipulated by the scammers and is one of the victims here. I feel sorry for him and for all of the others that have fallen for this.

 

[Tex2]

My response to the above "response" can be found here:

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=7395124008407193399&postID=3385022669004840251, the August 23, 2009 7:04 AM post.

 

[oggiesnr]

Tex2 has seen fit to copy posts from here (and reply to them) elsewhere. Although not against the rules (as I read them) of this forum, I regard this as a gross breach of netiquette and so will not be posting further to this thread.

Steve

 

[NewtonTrino]

Tex I could care less what you write on your blog.

My main concern here is that amway is exposed as the dangerous mind control cult that it is. You posting here just confirms the damage that this dangerous cult has done and continues to do.

 

[Tricky]

A number of bickering posts have been split to join their cousins in AAH. Cut out the bickering and personal attacks right now.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Tricky

 

[Z]

Wow... Until I noticed this thread, I didn't even realize Amway still existed! I can vaguely recall someone selling Amway stuff when I was a teenager in the '80s, but since then, I've not heard of them. I've seen Tupperware, Avon, and Mary Kay salespeople (usually booths in malls or flea markets), and I knew two women who sold... ahem... adult entertainment products (they had interesting demo parties for women only, I'm told). I've encountered two different men selling 'high quality discount frozen foods' from the backs of refrigerated trucks. But I've never encountered Amway - not in Oklahoma, North Carolina, Ohio, or South Korea. And I've never heard of any of their products.

How great could their company be, that it goes utterly unnoticed?

My wife, for a short time, sold Avon - or, rather, got herself some Avon products at a 'reduced price', and a lot of unused samples. I'm sure it MIGHT work - if you start with an established market (like a church or social group), have no competition within that market, and actually want to do something with it. I had a guy try to get me into selling Tupperware once - and while I love Tupperware and have some respect for the company, I'm just not the kind who can do that kind of sales, and I know it. Props to those who can, but most people are idiots who don't realize they aren't gonna sell a thing.

Kind of reminds me of these CityGroup insurance salesmen, who are more interested in getting you to sell insurance than buy it.

 

[Tex2]

You didn't remove bickering, you removed a lively discussion. Newton's posts were different than mine because he didn't use facts, and I did. LOL

 

[Tex2]

Z, are you interested in learning more about Amway and how it works? I am NOT trying to "recruit" you, just educate you.

 

[Z]

Z, are you interested in learning more about Amway and how it works? I am NOT trying to "recruit" you, just educate you.

No, not particularly, though thank you for the offer. I'm a lousy salesperson, and I know it; so there's no point in me looking into any sort of self-driven business opportunity. Plus, while there may be such a thing as a 'legitimate' MLM scheme, I personally view all these businesses - Amway, Avon, Mary Kay, Tupperware, and even businesses such as Schwann and catalogue-only sales companies - as being, in general, either elitist or underhanded. That is, they only seem to appeal to two niches: those with more money than good sense, or those with neither money nor good sense. Either way, their products are grossly overpriced (except, perhaps, in the case of Tupperware, provided they still have their unrestricted lifetime full replacement guarantee), generally misrepresented, and not worth the shipping & handling charges (versus the gas to drive to your local store, pay about 10% - 25% less for a comparable product, and have it that same afternoon).

And if anyone comes to MY door selling products, all I have to do is show them my empty, cobweb-covered wallet. Amazing how many Fuller Brush men have walked away after seeing that!

lol

 

[Tex2]

It's your choice to remain uninformed, but thanks for the data point.

It will come in handy with my IBO training program.

By the way, I think you're a great salesman, you certainly "sold" me that you're not looking to improve your life.

 

[Z]

It's your choice to remain uninformed.

No offense intended, but when you say this, you sound EXACTLY like someone pushing a cult or faith. Just for your edification, I'm not choosing to remain uninformed; I'm choosing to do my research independently, free from people with biased opinions either way, if and only if I find a reason to do such research. Since I'm not interested in selling any product, there is no reason for me to research Amway, or Avon, or any other marketting group. Since I'm also not interested in purchasing any product at the moment, I have no reason to research any sales company.

When I am in the market for a product, I research that product independently, and then look for a local (within a three-hour drive radius) retailer with a good price; failing that, I resort to well-known internet-based sales sites that sell things both new and used at a variety of low prices with good shipping.

There are several things I do NOT do:

1) I do NOT pay any attention to advertising, in general, to tell me what product to buy. I seek independent information on any product I am going to buy, not adverts or biased insider info.

2) I do NOT listen to salesmen, marketting specialists, or company-funded PR people.

3) I do NOT look for products from MLM companies, for the reasons I mentioned in a prior post.

And, in general, I am never dissatisfied with my purchases (though there was an MP3 player I bought from Radio Shack a few years ago - good price, good player, but very fragile, apparently).

As for being 'informed' regarding Amway, what purpose do I have for needing to be informed? I'm in college to become a computer forensics specialist, so I have no need of a job selling Amway products. No one around here (that I know of, of course) is selling Amway products, so I have no concerns about having to deal with the company in any way, shape, fashion, or form. And it's not like Amway is promising a magical, happy, wealthy lifestyle for its converts, so there's no reason for me to introduce it to this Amway-free area. I need information about Amway the way you need information about the current membership of the Alpha Force based in San Francisco¹... that is to say, not at all.

So, as I said before, no, but thank you for the offer. But you may feel free to keep your condescending comments about 'remaining uninformed' to yourself.





¹ A reference to a fictional super-group in a long-running Heroes Unlimited campaign I ran.

 

[Z]

It's your choice to remain uninformed, but thanks for the data point.

It will come in handy with my IBO training program.

By the way, I think you're a great salesman, you certainly "sold" me that you're not looking to improve your life.

Your edit only reinforces what I said in my last post.

Of course I'm looking to improve my life. I'm starting my third semester of college (completed my first two with a 4.0 GPA), studying Computer Forensics (well, that's ultimately my goal; at the moment, it's just Computer Information Systems at the local community college). I moved away from the Big City life and out of all the drama and nonsense of the suburban neighborhoods. I'm getting medicine and treatment for high blood pressure and diabetes for the first time in my life.

In no way whatsoever can the cult of Amway improve my life.

 

[Tex2]

No offense intended, but when you say this, you sound EXACTLY like someone pushing a cult or faith. >>>> No offense taken, I know the facts and you don't. LOL

Just for your edification, I'm not choosing to remain uninformed; I'm choosing to do my research independently, free from people with biased opinions either way, if and only if I find a reason to do such research. >>>> In other words, you don't care about the facts. Gotcha. LOL

Since I'm not interested in selling any product, there is no reason for me to research Amway, or Avon, or any other marketting group. >>>> I TOLD you I wasn't interested in recruiting you, only educating you. If you choose not to read for comprehension, it's not my fault.

Since I'm also not interested in purchasing any product at the moment, I have no reason to research any sales company. >>>> You don't buy ANY products?

When I am in the market for a product, I research that product independently, and then look for a local (within a three-hour drive radius) retailer with a good price; failing that, I resort to well-known internet-based sales sites that sell things both new and used at a variety of low prices with good shipping. >>>> How much do you estimate it costs to drive 6 hours round trip, not to mention the time value? Do you realize shipping can be FREE with Amway? Do you buy used consummable products? Do you ever include Amway in your price comparisons? If so, do you have access to the IBO product prices?

There are several things I do NOT do:

1) I do NOT pay any attention to advertising, in general, to tell me what product to buy. I seek independent information on any product I am going to buy, not adverts or biased insider info. >>>> Fantastic, that's what I do as well.

2) I do NOT listen to salesmen, marketting specialists, or company-funded PR people. >>>> That's unfortunate, as all of these can be excellent sources for SOME of your information.

3) I do NOT look for products from MLM companies, for the reasons I mentioned in a prior post. >>>> That is also unfortunate, because some of our products have EXCELLENT pricing.

And, in general, I am never dissatisfied with my purchases (though there was an MP3 player I bought from Radio Shack a few years ago - good price, good player, but very fragile, apparently). >>>> Ditto with Amway products, among others, I purchase.

As for being 'informed' regarding Amway, what purpose do I have for needing to be informed? >>>> YOU are the one who chimed in, why would you NOT want to be informed, rather than spew several errors?

I'm in college to become a computer forensics specialist, so I have no need of a job selling Amway products. >>>> Most IBOs have a job BEFORE starting an Amway business, we don't normally look for folks that don't have jobs.

No one around here (that I know of, of course) is selling Amway products, so I have no concerns about having to deal with the company in any way, shape, fashion, or form. >>>> You would probably be surprised. Do you think there is a reason why nobody has ever approached you?

And it's not like Amway is promising a magical, happy, wealthy lifestyle for its converts, so there's no reason for me to introduce it to this Amway-free area. >>>> Amway is a business, not a lottery.

I need information about Amway the way you need information about the current membership of the Alpha Force based in San Francisco1... that is to say, not at all. >>>> And I didn't enter a forum discussing Alpha Force based in San Francisco1 spewing incorrect ideas, either.

So, as I said before, no, but thank you for the offer. But you may feel free to keep your condescending comments about 'remaining uninformed' to yourself. >>>> There's nothing condescending about my comments, but thanks again for elaborating for my training program.

 

[Tex2]

Your edit only reinforces what I said in my last post. >>>> That's okay, you didn't say much that could be reinforced.

Of course I'm looking to improve my life. I'm starting my third semester of college (completed my first two with a 4.0 GPA), studying Computer Forensics (well, that's ultimately my goal; at the moment, it's just Computer Information Systems at the local community college). >>>> I never said there's anything wrong with any of that. I am educated well above the average as well.

I moved away from the Big City life and out of all the drama and nonsense of the suburban neighborhoods. >>>> Good for you.

I'm getting medicine and treatment for high blood pressure and diabetes for the first time in my life. >>>> I use diet and exercise to not need medicine to treat those conditions. I suppose you're not interested in diet and exercise, similar to being satisfied with your empty wallet, correct?

In no way whatsoever can the cult of Amway improve my life. >>>> That is another of your numerous errors.