Amway TV ad

[NewtonTrino]

Much of this thread is idle speculation. LOL In fact, it's uninformed/ignorant/critical idle speculation. LOL

All he's saying is that it's an interesting thought experiment to consider whether or not it would be more profitable to sell Amway soap in a different manner.

From what I understand Amway has on occasion manufactured products under contract for other companies to be sold retail. So it looks like they've thought about that already.

That being said a captive downline audience brainwashed into buying massive amounts of products is probably a pretty solid business plan.

 

[Tex2]

Did you miss the part about me writing software for Amway businesses that calculates all this stuff? It also tracked tools profits both using the old "price break" method and using the newer volume method as well as a bunch of other stuff. >>>> I didn't realize Amway didn't know how to calculate their own bonuses. LOL How long did it take you to realize you were writing software for LCKs who were ripping off their downline?

Anyway once you have the PV/BV values calculating your direct discount is pretty easy. PV is point volume which goes towards calculating what your discount % is. So for example a $100 steak at 11.67 PV gives you 11.67 Point Value towards upping your discount percentage. You then put your total monthly PV into the chart and it gives you your discount %. This discount is then applied to the BV portion of the sale. So for a $100 steak the bonus value is $28 * whatever your percentage is. So if you had enough PV to hit 25% your total discount would be 0.25 * $28 = $7 or 7% of the $100 steak.

If you are getting a special or cheap price I suppose you could include that as a variable as well.

For your case with 3 downline you discount is simply.
Your BV * your bonus percentage - leg 123s BV * their bonus percent

If this was the ONLY thing everyone bought (e.g. you and 3 different legs all bought $100 of omaha steak) you wouldn't even qualify for a discount because there is only 400 * 11.67 = 46.68 PV which isn't enough to qualify.

The best you can do is to have enough side volume to get you up to 25% in which case you would get the full $7 discount for each $100 steak. If this was your downlines only volume you would get a discount of $28 total on all 4 steaks. Your downline again doesn't qualify for any discount or bonus with only 11pv.

BTW this is slightly simplified because there are other bonuses in Amway not tied to this direct discount.

Anyone not follow that?

Wow, getting paid for others to eat steak. As you said, this is only a single product, and there are hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of others to choose from. The steaks don't even have as good of PV/BV as the core line. Of course, what's his name wouldn't buy Omaha Steak, because it costs more than his supermarket steak. Of course, I'm sure the supermarket steak quality is as good or better than Omaha Steaks are...NOT!!! LOL

 

[Tex2]

The plural of anecdote is not data. So we've established that someone things Artistry products are good quality? I'll just agree with you and move on. It really doesn't change anything with respect to the business being profitable or not.

I didn't say her experience was data, I said it was a data POINT. I'll bet the person she bought the mascara from made a profit, and you have demonstrated you could calculate the profit. Now, whether that person turns around and spends that money to feed the tool scam monster is a different question, and chances are high they did. It's not enough to "just agree and move on", that is an intellectually dishonest position. You should refer others who state Amway products are "junk", "crap", "inferor quality", etc., that others enjoy the products, and the mascara is apparently something that is not easy to get right.

 

[Tex2]

All he's saying is that it's an interesting thought experiment to consider whether or not it would be more profitable to sell Amway soap in a different manner. >>>> I think it would be an interesting thought experiment for you to take a long walk on a short pier.

From what I understand Amway has on occasion manufactured products under contract for other companies to be sold retail. So it looks like they've thought about that already. >>>> Any manufacturer would be foolish NOT to use expensive manufacturing equipment that would otherwise be idle. I've thought about a lot of things, with no intention to take action on them.

That being said a captive downline audience brainwashed into buying massive amounts of products is probably a pretty solid business plan.

That being said a person having intimate knowledge of the tool scam yet doing virtually nothing about is probably a pretty solid idiot.

 

[Tex2]

Correction: That being said a person having intimate knowledge of the tool scam yet doing virtually nothing about it is probably a pretty solid idiot.

 

[Porkchopjim]

Correction: That being said a person having intimate knowledge of the tool scam yet doing virtually nothing about it is probably a pretty solid idiot.

That's the only thing you've proven beyond a doubt, Texie!

No one here would argue with that!


P.S. - Spamming websites with your idiocy does, in fact, equal doing 'virtually nothing.' I know you have a problem with non-Amway concepts, so I wanted to spell that out for you and save you lots of confusion on that part of reality.

Glad I could help!

 

[Tex2]

That's the only thing you've proven beyond a doubt, Texie! >>>> Glad you agree.

No one here would argue with that! >>>> I think you could find someone here willing to argue with virtually anything. LOL


P.S. - Spamming websites with your idiocy does, in fact, equal doing 'virtually nothing.' I know you have a problem with non-Amway concepts, so I wanted to spell that out for you and save you lots of confusion on that part of reality. >>>> If all I was doing was "spamming websites", you would have a point. However, I've done FAR more than that. I wanted to spell that out for you and save you lots of confusion on that part of reality. LOL

Glad I could help!

The only "help" you provide is when you wipe up the spilled bed-pan contents in your bed-pan changing assistant position, when the bed-pan changer "accidentally" spills a little of the bed-pan contents to keep you occupied. LOL

 

[snoop_doxie]

So you do believe Coca-Cola are idiots for selling coke to their competitors, 7-11?
More nonsensical rubbish. You "don't understand a business model where instead of having end consumers, you rely on ... end consumers"

Coca-Cola is not in competition with 7-11!

Coca-Cola is in competition with Pepsi-Cola (among others)!

They are in competition with each other to get 7-11 to retail their product to end consumers.

You, sir, are the one who seems to completely ignore facts to advance your argument.

I can provide you many, many links where people absolutely believe and talk about Bigfoot living in North America.
Your links to the cult of Amway are equal to my links to the cult of Bigfoot.
Amway forums talk about "customers" like Bigfoot forums talk about "sightings."

 

[Tex2]

Coca-Cola is not in competition with 7-11!

Coca-Cola is in competition with Pepsi-Cola (among others)!

They are in competition with each other to get 7-11 to retail their product to end consumers.

You, sir, are the one who seems to completely ignore facts to advance your argument.

I can provide you many, many links where people absolutely believe and talk about Bigfoot living in North America.
Your links to the cult of Amway are equal to my links to the cult of Bigfoot.
Amway forums talk about "customers" like Bigfoot forums talk about "sightings."

Icerat agrees Coke isn't in competition with 7-11, get a grip. Please don't tell my customers they don't buy products from me, or you may get a visit from Bigfoot tonight! LOL

 

[Porkchopjim]

If all I was doing was "spamming websites", you would have a point. However, I've done FAR more than that.

Right....

...must like your Amway business, the definition of 'doing something' must not be tied to anything anyone can measure. Because after all these years, you haven't done anything, in either.

In fact, in NA, the tool scam is healthier than ever! And you're STILL a 50+ year old failed Amway salesman after 16+ years and $40K lost...who STILL thinks that he makes a profit simply from BUYING products.

Oh, I almost forgot 10,000 'tools' stored in your house for the "Tex Tool Revolution!" How's that going by the way? You still playing your tapes to people over the phone?

And, no - you can't take credit for the UK. You found out about that AFTER it happened.

Well, one thing for sure: you STILL haven't figured out the 'quote' function.

I just CAN'T figure out why no one would take you seriously...either with your stupid 'tool scam' ideas, or your assurance that your 'internet business' is viable.

Wait - they don't.

 

[Tex2]

Right.... >>>> That's right, thanks for agreeing.

...must like your Amway business, the definition of 'doing something' must not be tied to anything anyone can measure. Because after all these years, you haven't done anything, in either. >>>> You don't have a clue, not that I'm surprised. LOL

In fact, in NA, the tool scam is healthier than ever! And you're STILL a 50+ year old failed Amway salesman after 16+ years and $40K lost...who STILL thinks that he makes a profit simply from BUYING products. >>>> STILL clueless, aren't you? LOL

Oh, I almost forgot 10,000 'tools' stored in your house for the "Tex Tool Revolution!" How's that going by the way? You still playing your tapes to people over the phone? >>>> Why, would you like to hear one? LOL

And, no - you can't take credit for the UK. You found out about that AFTER it happened. >>>> When did I ever take credit for the UK?

Well, one thing for sure: you STILL haven't figured out the 'quote' function. >>>> It's not worth the effort or time, with people like YOU! LOL

I just CAN'T figure out why no one would take you seriously...either with your stupid 'tool scam' ideas, or your assurance that your 'internet business' is viable. >>>> You are in favor of the tool scam? Better tell the UK you don't like what they did!!! LOL

Wait - they don't.

Stand by....LOL

 

[snoop_doxie]

So you do believe Coca-Cola are idiots for selling coke to their competitors, 7-11?


More nonsensical rubbish. You "don't understand a business model where instead of having end consumers, you rely on ... end consumers"

Ápart from which, you just continue to completely ignore the evidence supplied that we have many non-distributor consumers. Tex has customers. I have customers. I provided a link to a forum where there were a bunch of Amway folk talking ... about their customers.

So you're not only wilfully choosing to ignore evidence, your also making illogical statements like the above. In my world a skeptic is someone who is rational. On this issue at least, you clearly are not.[/QUOTE]

Icerat agrees Coke isn't in competition with 7-11, get a grip. Please don't tell my customers they don't buy products from me, or you may get a visit from Bigfoot tonight! LOL

Hello Tex2,
I guess the question by Icerat (bolded and italicized by me) was misunderstood by me? Thank you for demanding I get a grip.

My analogy about Bigfoot was meant to point out that your customers (downliners) are just as real as Bigfoot. In other words, without proof they do not exist. See?

How many customers do you have?

 

[NewtonTrino]

Bonus or Discount != Profit

A bonus or discount is simply income, not profit. They are not one and the same thing.

 

[NewtonTrino]

I'm sure the supermarket steak quality is as good or better than Omaha Steaks are...NOT!!! LOL

My supermarket has good quality prime stuff. I can find both dry and wet aged prime steaks around here. Omaha does have some fine steaks though as long as you order the prime stuff.

 

[Andrew Wiggin]

Other than anecdotes, I can really only verify that a few people made a fortune off of amway. Dick DeVos, for example. He's more filthy rich than god. Occasionally tries to get into politics. Ran for governor of my state once and lost. Throws money around to get his name on things like museums and art galleries. Everyone else is just drinking the kool-aid.

This business plan simply isn't how money is made, except for the folks at the top, and any 'run your own small business' manual would make that obvious. For example, my wife owns a business that manufactures tents and awnings. She's buying raw materials directly from the company that weaves them, employing herself and a couple other machine operators, and creating a product with a value and a market. None of this upline and downline cattle waste.

We wouldn't make money buying from a 'middle man' distributor in order to set ourselves up as another middle man to resell to yet another group of distributors we had to recruit. We wouldn't buy from a redistributor at all, since they'd charge more and be harder to work with. We need 'right now' delivery, since part of the business model is to minimize stale raw materials by right time deliveries and rapid fabrication to order.

Compare this to what people do here: moving projuct around till some poor schmuck gets stuck with it and ends up warehousing it in their garage, then finding new schmucks to buy and warehouse product. I've got a neighbor with a garage AND a basement full of inventory with no market and no potential to profit. She keeps hoping that somehow she'll be able to move this load of cattle waste, but if it sells at all it sells poorly because it ends up being marked up again and again as it moves down the line, and it's not neccesarily a better product than anything else out there. Her only option would be to lie to someone gullible and convince them, using all the helpful visual aids provided by the company, that THEY can make money selling this stuff, and move it into someone else's garage.

A

 

[Skeptic]

Bonus or Discount != Profit

Actually, there is an important group of economists which DOES consider "paying less" the same as "profit".

For example, they argue that if you buy something at 50% off, you saved 50% -- which mean you made 50% profit -- which you then use to buy it at 50% of the price, which means you got it for free!

They're known as "women".

 

[NewtonTrino]

Funny one.

 

[Andrew Wiggin]

Actually, there is an important group of economists which DOES consider "paying less" the same as "profit".

For example, they argue that if you buy something at 50% off, you saved 50% -- which mean you made 50% profit -- which you then use to buy it at 50% of the price, which means you got it for free!

They're known as "women".

I thought they were known as 'wal mart shoppers'. Classic cases of buying something you don't need because it's cheap. I've known lots of people who fell into this fallacy. I've also known business managers who regarded failure to move product at its desired mark up as a loss. If I had the option of moving one unit of product a day at a 100 percent markup or ten units of product a day at a 20 percent markup, I'd choose the latter, even if the 'suggested retail price' was based on the 100 percent markup.

A

 

[Tex2]

Hello Tex2,
I guess the question by Icerat (bolded and italicized by me) was misunderstood by me? Thank you for demanding I get a grip. >>>> You're welcome. LOL

My analogy about Bigfoot was meant to point out that your customers (downliners) are just as real as Bigfoot. In other words, without proof they do not exist. See? >>>> I don't need to prove anything to you, you can't even read for comprehension. LOL

How many customers do you have? >>>> Enough. Even if I told you, how would I "prove" it to you anyway? LOL

 

[Tex2]

Bonus or Discount != Profit

A bonus or discount is simply income, not profit. They are not one and the same thing.

Of course a bonus or discount is profit, gross profit. In fact, Amway describes the monthly average bonus as gross profit in their literature. Net profit is something else, and usually negative thanks to the tool scam: http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/9-steps-of-truth.html Check out my new thread here: http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2009/08/amway-approved-blog-words.html

You need to pay more attention to the dollars and stop quibbling about the exact words to use to define them.