Amway TV ad

[Tex2]

You can not win an argument with an assistant bed-pan changer assistant (pcj) who thinks lying about others enables him to win an argument. LOL

 

[oggiesnr]

Due to assorted Court decisions the UK model for Amway is significantly different from the US one (according to the two company websites). The next set of UK earnings figures (due in a couple of months) will be fascinating because they'll show what can be realistically earnt without the tool scams.

I think it's important to separate out the earnings of Amway IBOs (at whatever level) from that of the parent company. As a private company we get few figures but the value to the shareholders is related to the profit they make on overall sales and manufacturing and not to the fact it's an MLM. The only thought at the back of my mind is if the products are so good (and they may be) could the company bosses have made the same profit (or more) by using other routes to market (selling to WALMART or whoever). No-one will will ever know the answer but it's fun to speculate.

Steve

 

[Skeptic]

Wouldn't you like to know.

I'm not THAT interested. Especially when the answer -- "I made next to nothing in Amway" -- is obvious.

 

[Tex2]

Due to assorted Court decisions the UK model for Amway is significantly different from the US one (according to the two company websites). >>>> Unfortunately, neither company website describes the biggest difference between the 2 countries, the lack of a tool scam in the UK.

The next set of UK earnings figures (due in a couple of months) will be fascinating because they'll show what can be realistically earnt without the tool scams. >>>> Agreed, but there will be a "learning curve", so I'm not going to rush to a judgment based on a single year result. Although cleaned up, there's a lot of leftover reputation issues that don't go away when you snap your fingers, especially in the internet world.

I think it's important to separate out the earnings of Amway IBOs (at whatever level) from that of the parent company. >>>> Absolutely agree. It is also important to separate out the upline LCK earnings from the downline earnings, and focus on net profit and tool scam profit.

As a private company we get few figures but the value to the shareholders is related to the profit they make on overall sales and manufacturing and not to the fact it's an MLM. >>>> Amway has no shareholders, it is privately owned.

The only thought at the back of my mind is if the products are so good (and they may be) could the company bosses have made the same profit (or more) by using other routes to market (selling to WALMART or whoever). No-one will will ever know the answer but it's fun to speculate.

Steve

You missed the entire concept Rich and Jay had when they started Amway.

 

[Tex2]

I'm not THAT interested. Especially when the answer -- "I made next to nothing in Amway" -- is obvious.

Good, then I'll expect you'll stop asking. LOL

By the way, what I make has little impact on the tool scam.

 

[corplinx]

Amway already has the following that have frozen foods:

Partner stores Ada Valley Frozen Foods and Omaha Steaks, plus Ribbon Gift Cards.

All of these are shipped direct to your door, just like all other Amway products.

Omaha Steaks already does direct sales. They also have storefronts. I get coupons from them constantly for going to the local store.

I am not sure what the value add is for buying it through Amway. I guess you get an Amway discount off the standard price. However, buying it from the retail store, you basically get 50 or more percent off everything with the coupons they spam you with.

 

[Tex2]

Omaha Steaks already does direct sales. They also have storefronts. I get coupons from them constantly for going to the local store. >>>> Many stores have a variety of distribution methods.

I am not sure what the value add is for buying it through Amway. I guess you get an Amway discount off the standard price. However, buying it from the retail store, you basically get 50 or more percent off everything with the coupons they spam you with.

We get PV/BV, which amounts to an Amway discount (except we also get additional profit for customer and downline orders), and many of the retail stores specials are also available online, and some online specials are not available in the stores.

 

[NewtonTrino]

This sounds like a great test case. Care you post from PV/BV numbers from Omaha steaks?

Let's see how much discount you get compared to some coupons.

 

[Tex2]

This sounds like a great test case. Care you post from PV/BV numbers from Omaha steaks?

Let's see how much discount you get compared to some coupons.

You misread my previous post. Try reading it again. Slowly.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Partner stores Ada Valley Frozen Foods and Omaha Steaks, plus Ribbon Gift Cards.

and

We get PV/BV, which amounts to an Amway discount (except we also get additional profit for customer and downline orders), and many of the retail stores specials are also available online, and some online specials are not available in the stores.

So my question is how much PV/BV do you get on Omaha steak? What is the maximum discount you will receive from this?

 

[NewtonTrino]

I did too when I read it. I got infuriated at the guys upline. Then I got further infuriated because people read that book and think it's a typical Amway experience.

In fact his experience isn't typical because he built a decent sized organization. The rest of it seems pretty par for the course though.

It's not even close to my experience, and given how few complaints there are about Amway, relative to those who've had experience, simple logic would suggest it's not close to most people experiences.

You're joking right?

Anyway, time to exit this thread again. Let's summarize.

The heat is on.. on the street!

Critic's claim:
1. the products are lousy
Reality:
the products are great and have won heaps of awards

Great compared to what? Other overpriced vitamins? other SOAP? Personally I've never been particularly impressed with the core products. The scents tend to be odd smelling to me.

2. hardly anybody makes any money
Reality:
this is true, only people who work hard and try to make money make money, a minority.

Can you define work hard? I mean specifically? I saw a ton of people working very hard for no monetary reward. Given the income numbers FROM AMWAY it seems like you have a huge hill to climb on this one.

3. it's a pyramid
Reality:
you make no money by recruiting people, which is the key requirement to be a pyramid

You might not but your upline certainly will. The goal is to be the upline right? Ongoing tools income from every distributor who is plugged in certainly fits my definition of a pyramid. Instead of being like a typical scheme it's ONGOING scam income not just a one time fee like some of the gifting pyramids. Until you can show some proof that a significant amount of product (80%+) goes to external customers I think calling it a pyramid is being generous. Brainwashing cult that will wreck your life is a more accurate description.

4. there's no "real" customers
Reality:
There's lots of "real" customers. Actively building ABOs usually have many customers, and numerous examples have been given. Furthermore, as governments around the world have acknowledged, ABOs buying stuff for their own use (as opposed to stuffing it in their garage) are as "real" a customer as anyone else

ABO's are not real customers. Period.

As for the rest of the customers lets see some proof. Almost all product goes into the pyramid and doesn't come out the other side. Most organizations don't teach retailing as the primary method to make money.

I'll probably have to be back to repeat this in a few weeks as this thread seems to never die. Try ignoring Tex, that's what I do.

You've been quite persistent in repeating your spin. I will admit you are pretty good at it! Unfortunately your "facts" don't hold up to scrutiny.

 

[ysabella]

I'm still getting caught up on this thread after being away for a month, but I wanted to mention that I did buy an Amway mascara and I give it a thumbs up. It's a waterproof mascara and it stayed put (my road-test of it was at a three-hour walk-around singing gig, mostly outdoors), and it didn't irritate my eyes, which some waterproof mascaras do.

I don't know that this really helps the discussion, but there you are.

 

[NewtonTrino]

at a three-hour walk-around singing gig

A what? That sounds weird.

 

[oggiesnr]

You missed the entire concept Rich and Jay had when they started Amway.

I am aware that it's privately owned, I used the word "shareholders" loosely to represent those who own whatever percentage of the company.

I haven't missed the concept, I was just idely speculating as to whether more profit might have been created differently.

Steve

 

[Tex2]

and


So my question is how much PV/BV do you get on Omaha steak? What is the maximum discount you will receive from this?

As long as you understand IBOs ALSO have access to the online sales, some of which may not be available in the stores, and don't pay full price, here's the PV/BV for Omaha Steak: 11.67%/28%. For Ada Valley Frozen Foods: 24.17%/58% Ribbon: about 35%/42%. I don't know if you understand MLM, but you also receive money from your customer purchases, as well as your downline and their customer purchases, so it's not just your own personal discount. In fact, that's a good question for YOU - given the above numbers, what is the maximum discount for $100 of personal purchases, and how much money would you make if you had 3 different legs buying $100 worth of these products? Careful, the answers to these questions are variable, and YOU will have to define the variables. Good luck.

 

[Tex2]

I'm still getting caught up on this thread after being away for a month, but I wanted to mention that I did buy an Amway mascara and I give it a thumbs up. It's a waterproof mascara and it stayed put (my road-test of it was at a three-hour walk-around singing gig, mostly outdoors), and it didn't irritate my eyes, which some waterproof mascaras do.

I don't know that this really helps the discussion, but there you are.

What, no comments on her experience? This is a very supportive data point. I guess the real question is whether the mascara was worth the cost. Was it?

 

[Tex2]

A what? That sounds weird.

What sounds weird is your silence on a very positive experience she had. LOL

 

[Tex2]

I am aware that it's privately owned, I used the word "shareholders" loosely to represent those who own whatever percentage of the company. >>>> Then the word is "owner", not "shareholder."

I haven't missed the concept, I was just idely speculating as to whether more profit might have been created differently.

Steve

Much of this thread is idle speculation. LOL In fact, it's uninformed/ignorant/critical idle speculation. LOL

 

[NewtonTrino]

As long as you understand IBOs ALSO have access to the online sales, some of which may not be available in the stores, and don't pay full price, here's the PV/BV for Omaha Steak: 11.67%/28%. For Ada Valley Frozen Foods: 24.17%/58% Ribbon: about 35%/42%. I don't know if you understand MLM, but you also receive money from your customer purchases, as well as your downline and their customer purchases, so it's not just your own personal discount. In fact, that's a good question for YOU - given the above numbers, what is the maximum discount for $100 of personal purchases, and how much money would you make if you had 3 different legs buying $100 worth of these products? Careful, the answers to these questions are variable, and YOU will have to define the variables. Good luck.

Did you miss the part about me writing software for Amway businesses that calculates all this stuff? It also tracked tools profits both using the old "price break" method and using the newer volume method as well as a bunch of other stuff.

Anyway once you have the PV/BV values calculating your direct discount is pretty easy. PV is point volume which goes towards calculating what your discount % is. So for example a $100 steak at 11.67 PV gives you 11.67 Point Value towards upping your discount percentage. You then put your total monthly PV into the chart and it gives you your discount %. This discount is then applied to the BV portion of the sale. So for a $100 steak the bonus value is $28 * whatever your percentage is. So if you had enough PV to hit 25% your total discount would be 0.25 * $28 = $7 or 7% of the $100 steak.

If you are getting a special or cheap price I suppose you could include that as a variable as well.

For your case with 3 downline you discount is simply.
Your BV * your bonus percentage - leg 123s BV * their bonus percent

If this was the ONLY thing everyone bought (e.g. you and 3 different legs all bought $100 of omaha steak) you wouldn't even qualify for a discount because there is only 400 * 11.67 = 46.68 PV which isn't enough to qualify.

The best you can do is to have enough side volume to get you up to 25% in which case you would get the full $7 discount for each $100 steak. If this was your downlines only volume you would get a discount of $28 total on all 4 steaks. Your downline again doesn't qualify for any discount or bonus with only 11pv.

BTW this is slightly simplified because there are other bonuses in Amway not tied to this direct discount.

Anyone not follow that?

 

[NewtonTrino]

What sounds weird is your silence on a very positive experience she had. LOL

The plural of anecdote is not data. So we've established that someone things Artistry products are good quality? I'll just agree with you and move on. It really doesn't change anything with respect to the business being profitable or not.