Amway TV ad

[Richard Masters]

What do you mean by "sermons", or "church of Amway?" Are you aware that most sales organizations teach using motivational techniques?

If you are not motivated enough, it's probably because you are selling crap. Motivating someone is not the same as teaching, by the way.

 

[NewtonTrino]

I tried to end this thread a few posts back, now it's time to do it at least for me.

You believe what you want to believe, you've made it clear that anything that disagrees with your doctrine will simply be dismissed.

You've made it clear that you believe you have "the truth" and that you've had "the one true experience" and that anyone who claims to have experienced anything different is lying.

I get it. A little thing like reality simply isn't going to get in the way of your beliefs. That kind of faith can't be argued against, as is evident enough elsewhere on JREF where religious types talk about how their personal experience is all the proof they need, and things like logic or rational thought can and should be ignored.

For those lurkers who instead care to evaluate evidence and look at the facts, I've provided enough links and data and 3rd party information. They can make their own decisions.

So I'm done in this thread. Have a nice weekend.

Dude, you are the one using the argument of religious believers. If I talk about how the catholic church is a bunch of bunk, superstition, weird rituals and fake miracles I get exactly the same sort of retort back. Anyone can run the Amway math, look at the history, look at the lack of proof of people making money and draw their own conclusions.

I'm still waiting to hear from any actual retail customers. A lot of people read this forum, surely someone regularly buys amway products here?

 

[Almo]

You believe what you want to believe, you've made it clear that anything that disagrees with your doctrine will simply be dismissed.

You've made it clear that you believe you have "the truth" and that you've had "the one true experience" and that anyone who claims to have experienced anything different is lying.

I get it. A little thing like reality simply isn't going to get in the way of your beliefs. That kind of faith can't be argued against, as is evident enough whereever devout Amway types talk about how their personal experience is all the proof they need, and things like logic or rational thought can and should be ignored.

For those lurkers who instead care to evaluate evidence and look at the facts, we've provided enough links and data and 3rd party information. They can make their own decisions.

 

[NewtonTrino]

This is your circular logic. You're claiming nobody buys the products legitimately (despite all the evidence to the contrary) and proof is that most products are bought by members. Of course, if you liked the products, you'd become a member to get them cheaper .... which just proves, in your world, that nobody legitimately wants the products!

Do you really believe this rubbish your spouting?

Absolutely I believe it. Your theory is that everyone who buys Amway products and likes them signs up to get better prices. I don't buy this theory as a reason for the low amount of retail sales outside of the IBO's. My explanation of the facts are simply different. I haven't seen any data presented by you that would show your theory of why there is so little external sales. My theory fits the facts nicely. People don't buy the products because they are overpriced crap. People in the pyramid are told to buy the products so the can get rich. BTW I'm not saying that retail customers don't exist. You always seem to want to twist anyone statements into the most extreme form possible. All I'm saying is that most IBO's don't even try to retail because that's not what's really taught. The available numbers bear out my theory, not yours.

Either way you've already unwittingly admitted that I'm right and now you are just arguing about why. This is similar to your useless argument about whether or not it's ILLEGAL vs. whether or not it's a waste of time.

Scam, be wary people!

 

[Tex2]

None of you has explained why the tool content is so bad. What is so bad about stories of success? Now, I realize all of these stories are based on the tool scam, but a similar amount of money can be made legitimately via Amway with one or two higher pins than what the speakers have.

 

[Tex2]

None of you has taken the request to discuss this on a conference call, either. Are you all chicken?

 

[Skeptic]

It's noteworthy that they only places where Amway offers products which are "competitive" with other vendors -- and only rarely in that case, too -- is in scam-filled, overpriced fields of cosmetics and "health products".

When it comes to anything else it offers, such as cutlery, we see the $300 six-knife set, $160 frying pans, etc. easily mean nobody except for the brainwashed ambots buy them because their upline says so.

 

[Richard Masters]

None of you has explained why the tool content is so bad. What is so bad about stories of success? Now, I realize all of these stories are based on the tool scam, but a similar amount of money can be made legitimately via Amway with one or two higher pins than what the speakers have.

And you haven't responded to any of my posts... which address some of your questions.

What is so bad about stories of success?

By themselves, nothing. What's wrong is the assumption that listening to stories of success will make you successful; or that these tapes are a better use of your time and money than say, watching the latest blockbuster at the local movie theater.

 

[NewtonTrino]

If they were just plain stories of success they wouldn't be as bad. They try to instill a particular attitude in the listener similar to what a sermon does.

 

[Tex2]

We can go round and round on these topics in a written format. I say again: None of you has taken the request to discuss this on a conference call, either. Are you all chicken?

 

[NewtonTrino]

Why would I call a conference call for a discussion on a message board?

What would the point of it be? This is just some random discussion on a random web site here.

 

[Almo]

We can go round and round on these topics in a written format. I say again: None of you has taken the request to discuss this on a conference call, either. Are you all chicken?

The only advantage a conference call has over writing is that bullying debate tactics work better when done vocally.

Here, everything everyone says is public record, and can be consulted. An example is my posting of the link to where Icerat got the price differential on Costco vitamins vs Amway vitamins wrong.

This is a far better way to discuss things than a conference call. So no, we're not chicken.

 

[NewtonTrino]

I see asking someone to call you on the phone in a forum discussion like this as kind of an unwanted escalation of a cyberspace meeting into a meatspace meeting.

 

[Tex2]

Okay, you both are chicken. It's okay. I'm not into bullying, whether giving or receiving. You think this is some random discussion, but it isn't. It's a decades long, multimillion IBO, multibillion dollar scam. It's not an escalation either, it's a common sense way to stop going around in circles and do something to shut down the tool scam. If you mean escalation to shut down the tool scam, you're right. If you think I'm going to bully you or be bullied by you, you're WRONG. I understand you would rather write back and forth ad nauseam with icerat/ibofb, and you know what? He enjoys it, too. I prefer to fix what's broke, not talk about it forever. Later.

 

[NewtonTrino]

I'm not sure it's fixable. I'm also a believer in liberty so I'm not sure I would try to shut it down either. I just want people to make sure they have enough information to decide for themselves whether or not they should get involved. I don't see how a conference call helps that.

 

[tomwaits]

Okay, you both are chicken.

We might be interested in a conference call if you gave a rational explanation as to why that would be preferable to a message board.

 

[Richard Masters]

Okay, you both are chicken. It's okay. I'm not into bullying, whether giving or receiving. You think this is some random discussion, but it isn't. It's a decades long, multimillion IBO, multibillion dollar scam. It's not an escalation either, it's a common sense way to stop going around in circles and do something to shut down the tool scam. If you mean escalation to shut down the tool scam, you're right. If you think I'm going to bully you or be bullied by you, you're WRONG. I understand you would rather write back and forth ad nauseam with icerat/ibofb, and you know what? He enjoys it, too. I prefer to fix what's broke, not talk about it forever. Later.

You make money deceiving people into wasting theirs. I don't think you are interested in fixing what's "broke".

EDIT: the reason people don't want to conference call you, is because they are certain you intend to make a high-pressure sales pitch. They know you are going to change the topic from "Amway salespeople are morally corrupt" to "Let me tell you about this opportunity...".

 

[NewtonTrino]

I wasn't assuming he was going to pitch on us Amway. I just think it's a waste of time. I can be on the laptop here doing other things at the same time as responding to this stuff. This is playtime stuff, right?

 

[Richard Masters]

I wasn't assuming he was going to pitch on us Amway. I just think it's a waste of time. I can be on the laptop here doing other things at the same time as responding to this stuff. This is playtime stuff, right?

That's true. He/She can give us the whole speech in a long-winded post, without hijacking our attention needlessly.

 

[NewtonTrino]

I just realized something. Drugs are expensive because they are a black market item. Due to the nature of this the supply chain tends to be long with a lot of middlemen to pay. Isn't this pretty much the same reason Amway products are so expensive? lol.