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Amway TV ad

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Amway's business is tools. The "products" it sells is the cover for the CD/Tape purchases and MLM referrals. ---- No. Amway's business is products. The LCKs business is the tool scam. They are mutually beneficial to each other and the IBOs lose.

You mean your down line? Not surprising, as they have to purchase. ---- No. I mean what I said, a non-IBO customer. In fact, I've never met him in person, or on the telephone for that matter.

Legitimate businesses have products and services as their purpose. ---- And that is exactly what Amway has.

Those products and services are the business, they don't have MLM referrals. ---- That's right, they have non-MLM referrals.
 
And why does Amway sell the model and not the product? Because the money comes from the tools. ---- Amway sells the products, the LCKs sell the tool scam. They both benefit from the other, and most IBOs lose.

Let me recommend the Quote feature. It makes it much easier to tell where what you say starts. It also puts a little link to the place where whatever was said was said, AND it tells you who said it. Much more useful. :)
 
I hadn't realized how prolific Icerat is until I did some googling. Holy cow that guy is Mr. Amway.

Again I want to call out to ANYONE that buys these products on on a regular basis because you like them. Not because your brother guilts you into it. Any women out there use Artistry? Anyone ever heard of it?
 
Let me know where else ibofb/icerat has posted recently, and I'll go give him some more grief.

There aren't enough people looking at your blog to expect a response on your Artistry question.
 
Almo,

Thanks, I've used the quote feature before, but I was answering a multifaceted post and wasn't sure how to do it.
 
Let me know where else ibofb/icerat has posted recently, and I'll go give him some more grief.

There aren't enough people looking at your blog to expect a response on your Artistry question.

This isn't a blog though, it's a pretty large forum. If as Icerat claims (above) that Artistry is a prestige brand I would expect there to be SOMEONE reading this who uses it. I know this isn't scientific but the complete silence is a bit deafening.
 
No. Amway's business is products. The LCKs business is the tool scam. They are mutually beneficial to each other and the IBOs lose.

Wrong. Amway' wouldn't exist without the "tools" and the down lines. That is its business.

No. I mean what I said, a non-IBO customer. In fact, I've never met him in person, or on the telephone for that matter.

Assuming you are telling the truth, so what? People make bad decisions all the time - if someone couldn't figure out it was a bad idea to buy products from an Amway distributor when they could get the same thing cheaper elsewhere then it only proves this is one "greater fool" business model. Congratulations, you found a greater fool.

And that is exactly what Amway has.

No, it does not.

That's right, they have non-MLM referrals.

No, they don't have referrals at all. If you can't see the difference between a business whose goal and reason for operation is to offer products and services and a business whose goal it is to sale "tools" and create down lines then you've stepped aboard the Amway propaganda train and there is nothing I can do for you.

Hint: Look at Buy.com, Amazon.com, or any other similiar websites business model versus Amways. If you cannot comprehend the difference, then I cannot help you.
 
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To be fair the corporation does in fact make money on the products. I think it's more of a dual scam where the corp. enables the tools scam to exist. This is one of the reasons they are so succesful, the appearance of being legit.
 
If this is such a large forum, why don't you ask if someone on this forum uses another of the top prestige brands of makeup?

WRONG. Amway was successful long before the tool scam came along and is successful in countries that have clamped down on the tool scam.

So what? I thought the point was nobody was using the products that isn't an IBO? I prove you wrong and you call them a fool. They CAN'T get the products somewhere else, and/or enjoy the convenience. I posted several Amway products that are cost competitive about 3 years ago on qblog, I am planning on doing another one soon to update those products and see how much of an advantage the recent price reductions have expanded the list.

Amway makes money by providing products and services. They had hypergrowth, and were able to get lazy with product prices, because of the tool scam. Now that the tool scam is getting out into the open, the symbiotic relationship the LCKs and Amway have enjoyed, at the figurative and literal expense of the IBOs, is coming to an end. Amway doesn't make money directly from the tools, but they do make money from IBOs who buy products that are not competitively priced, who are lied to by the upline LCKs.

You can't do anything for me because you don't have your facts straight. Other businesses have referrals. Hey, how 'bout that sale at Walmart or the grocery store? Did you see that movie? Did you try that restaurant? Have you gone on that cruise? Etc., etc., etc. You're so anti-Amway/MLM you can't see straight.
 
If this is such a large forum, why don't you ask if someone on this forum uses another of the top prestige brands of makeup?

Hasty generalization fallacy much?

WRONG. Amway was successful long before the tool scam came along and is successful in countries that have clamped down on the tool scam.

Lie. The business model of Amway is inseparable from its MLM scam parts. Remove the referral model and the "tools" and the business does not - and NEVER HAS - existed successfully.

So what? I thought the point was nobody was using the products that isn't an IBO? I prove you wrong and you call them a fool. They CAN'T get the products somewhere else, and/or enjoy the convenience. I posted several Amway products that are cost competitive about 3 years ago on qblog, I am planning on doing another one soon to update those products and see how much of an advantage the recent price reductions have expanded the list.

Again, hasty generalization much? Bully for you, you can find a sample of 1 that uses the product and isnt in someones downline.

They can't get the same product else where, they can get better or equal quality products else where.

Amway makes money by providing products and services. They had hypergrowth, and were able to get lazy with product prices, because of the tool scam. Now that the tool scam is getting out into the open, the symbiotic relationship the LCKs and Amway have enjoyed, at the figurative and literal expense of the IBOs, is coming to an end. Amway doesn't make money directly from the tools, but they do make money from IBOs who buy products that are not competitively priced, who are lied to by the upline LCKs.

The Amway scam has never seen growth due to its cover of "products" - it grows due to the greater fools joining and the sale of "tools".

You can't do anything for me because you don't have your facts straight. Other businesses have referrals. Hey, how 'bout that sale at Walmart or the grocery store? Did you see that movie? Did you try that restaurant? Have you gone on that cruise? Etc., etc., etc. You're so anti-Amway/MLM you can't see straight.

Unfortunately for you the facts speak larger than your shilling. I have the facts straight, your inability to see that you bought into a scam is not my problem.

Word of mouth /= MLM referral structure scams. Again, if you can't see the difference then your blind to the Amway propaganda. No one pays me for giving something good word of mouth, nor do I get a percent profit if someone sees a movie I recommend. Equally so, since I have nothing invested in generating positive word of mouth, there is no reason to be suspicious of my motives like there are for Amway shills.

I'm anti-scam, I'm sorry you bought into it. Anyways, the best advertising showing that Amway is a scam is the posting of Amway shills like you. You do more to demonstrate the scam of Amway and what a horrible "business opportunity" it is than all the facts in the world. You've bought into the scam like a religion and no facts will persuade you, so welcome to the ignore list (along with ice) with the rest of the trolls and conspiracy theorists who are equally not persuaded by facts :)
 
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WRONG. Amway was successful long before the tool scam came along and is successful in countries that have clamped down on the tool scam.

Early on, it was a less-well-diguised pyramid. The tools thing is a subterfuge to dodge the law.
 
Ok, so does anyone reading this thread use ANY kind of makeup?

I have someone sitting beside me that buys different makeup from several companies depending on what she likes in each company's line. Artistry isn't one of them.
 
Ok, so does anyone reading this thread use ANY kind of makeup?

I have someone sitting beside me that buys different makeup from several companies depending on what she likes in each company's line. Artistry isn't one of them.

I went to go get my haircut yesterday and quizzed the girls in the place (all of the ones cutting hair were female). This is a "uppity place" with staff that absolutely prides itself on being trendy, and none of them had heard of Artistry when I asked them about make up. Alright, well, maybe they just werent up scale enough for Amway. I then also asked them about Amway's "hair products" and none of them had heard of it - given that this is the type of place that again always buys the high quality stuff, if Amway was as superior as the shills think I would think I'd get at least one hit. Got 0.
 
Do the tools / training promoted by the up-line lead to a recognised qualification?

They have missed a trick if it doesn't, any Amway reps in UK pm me for a formal vocational training plan ;)
 
Not surprising, as they have to purchase.

LightinDarkness, you've made this claim a few times I think - that people "have to purchase" ... where do you get that idea?

I'm someone's downline, I haven't ordered anything for two months. Most months most of my downline doesn't order anything. There is no "have to" - I'm curious why you think there is?

BTW, just went and dug out our receipt book. We're not actively building the business, but if someone asks, we'll sell them stuff. We had more than 20 different customers last year, the majority of whom placed multiple orders.

What do active, building, IBOs do?

On the weekend I heard Indonesian Crown Robert Angkasa who said he has about 63 million rupee in pure customer sales every month.

UK Double Diamond mentioned she has 75 registered customers with her IBOship.
 
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Again, hasty generalization much? Bully for you, you can find a sample of 1 that uses the product and isnt in someones downline.

My mother was buying Amway products when I was a kid, she was never an IBO. In my first time as an IBO, I showed the business to a friend who worked for one of Australia's largest construction firms and knew the owner well. He figured maybe he could make some money selling the concentrated cleaners to them. He didn't succeed. Why not? They were already using Amway products.

Unfortunately for you the facts speak larger than your shilling. I have the facts straight, your inability to see that you bought into a scam is not my problem.

By facts you mean what you believe is true, contrary to all evidence.

You've bought into the scam like a religion and no facts will persuade you, so welcome to the ignore list (along with ice) with the rest of the trolls and conspiracy theorists who are equally not persuaded by facts :)

Clearly you need to put yourself on your own ignore list! What you're claiming not only ignores facts, it would also require a conspiracy the likes of which the world has never seen!
 
Do the tools / training promoted by the up-line lead to a recognised qualification?

Depends what you mean by "recognized"! I know of at least one example with formal recognition, with a group in SE Asia, I can't remember where exactly sorry, running nutrition courses for Amway IBOs in conjunction with a local recognized university, and they can count as credit. I also recall a large European group, Müller-Meerkatz I believe, who ran formal business accounting classes for interested IBOs in their organisations, whether that lead to any kind of certification I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me.

They have missed a trick if it doesn't, any Amway reps in UK pm me for a formal vocational training plan ;)

I'm not sure if there's any "formal" recognition for much of the type of training most upline groups do, at least as far as government acceditation. but I've said in the past they should formalise some of the training curriculum a little more and at least give course certificates and such for different modules. From what I understand Amway and various groups have actually started moving towards that in some form or another.

There's so many different companies offering this kind of stuff to ABOs, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them did what you're talking about. I'm not that knowledgeable about the many asian groups.
 
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I'm not sure if there's any "formal" recognition for much of the type of training most upline groups do, at least as far as government acceditation. but I've said in the past they should formalise some of the training curriculum a little more and at least give course certificates and such for different modules. From what I understand Amway and various groups have actually started moving towards that in some form or another.

There's so many different companies offering this kind of stuff to ABOs, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them did what you're talking about. I'm not that knowledgeable about the many asian groups.

There are a number of NVQ type courses that could be offered and would fit the model quite well (I am on about administration obviously other stuff out thereetc), it would legitimise the business and more than likely could attract some form of Government funding as well.
 
There are a number of NVQ type courses that could be offered and would fit the model quite well (I am on about administration obviously other stuff out thereetc), it would legitimise the business and more than likely could attract some form of Government funding as well.

Well, I don't know if it would do anything more to "legitimise" the business - those who think it is illegitimate base their opinions on ignoring facts anyway. Adding another one won't make much difference!:)

Indeed I just looked and noticed there's NVQ homeopathy courses, so I can quite well imagine the response to Amway related NVQ courses ....:cool:
 
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