Americans - Celebrate Your Independence!

[RandFan]

You can remain conservative and swallow the lies this administration has fed our country, or you can exercise your freedom of speech and in the spirit of our rebellious forefathers take passive measures to ensure that all Americans know that their dissatisfaction with this administration IS NOT unpatriotic.

Can I be libertarian and not see everything as only black and white? Can I have mixed feelings about the war and support the troops and not call for an end for it? Can I think that the President overplayed his hand and honestly believed things that later turned out to be not true? Can I accept that there was contradictory evidence and Bush accepted the evidence that aligned with his point of view at the exclusion of counter and perhaps better evidence? Can I believe that ultimatly that this war will not turn out like Vietnam and that this endeavor will be a positive one overall for the citizens of Iraq and perhaps others in the area? Can I concede that it is not unpatriotic to oppose this administration while at the same time believe that it is not unpatriotic to support it either? Must I only see the world from your POV.

FWIW, I support anyone who disagrees with the government. I'm pro-flag burning and I very much belive protesting is a fundamentally important part of our nation that makes us strong.

Here's to all of the American patriots both protestors and supporters alike. If you love our country then I like you.

Support the troops.

 

[Mephisto]

Re: Re: Americans - Celebrate Your Independence!

Can I be libertarian and not see everything as only black and white? Can I have mixed feelings about the war and support the troops and not call for an end for it? Can I think that the President overplayed his hand and honestly believed things that later turned out to be not true? Can I accept that there was contradictory evidence and Bush accepted the evidence that aligned with his point of view at the exclusion of counter and perhaps better evidence? Can I believe that ultimatly that this war will not turn out like Vietnam and that this endeavor will be a positive one overall for the citizens of Iraq and perhaps others in the area? Can I concede that it is not unpatriotic to oppose this administration while at the same time believe that it is not unpatriotic to support it either?

Sure, it's still a free country.

Must I only see the world from your POV.

No.

FWIW, I support anyone who disagrees with the government. I'm pro-flag burning and I very much belive protesting is a fundamentally important part of our nation that makes us strong.

Here's to all of the American patriots both protestors and supporters alike. If you love our country then I like you.

Support the troops.

Oh shucks, RandFan, I'd like to be the first, outspoken, liberal, kook to say I think you're pretty special too.

 

[RandFan]

Re: Re: Re: Americans - Celebrate Your Independence!

Oh shucks, RandFan, I'd like to be the first, outspoken, liberal, kook to say I think you're pretty special too.

Ok, ok, it was a bit sappy but the sentiment was sincere.

Thanks Mephisto,

RandFan

 

[Ladewig]

Colin Powell told Bush long before the invasion, "you buy it, you pay for it."

He said, "you break it, you pay for it."

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by Mephisto
Are you just wondering aloud, or asking me? You heard Rumsfeld say that as much as 12 years may be required to stop the insurgency effectively. Is America ready to stay the course of a mistake based on lies (at the expense of its sons and daughters) for TWELVE YEARS?

I heard Rumsfield say this, and it's not entirely honest to claim he said we'd be there as much as 12 years. What he really said is we don't know yet. We bash our politicians for not giving straight answers to straight questions, yet when they do we twist them around and bash them with it.

Originally posted by Mephisto
Colin Powell told Bush long before the invasion, "you buy it, you pay for it." The problem is; it's much easier for Bush (a rich, White, Christian male) to pay for it than middle and lower class Americans. I'll support the war when Jenna and Barbara are with the Marines in Fallujah.

This is just class resentment. Rich or poor, the members of our armed forces are volunteers. It's just as easy for poor people to not volunteer as it is for rich people.

Originally posted by Mephisto
...The idea that our soldiers in Iraq are protecting our freedom is a fallacy that is promoted by people who don't want the troops using their rights as Americans to ask why they are there.

Nobody has threatened the rights of the troops to ask why they are there. I think as a group they understand better than you or I.

Originally posted by Mephisto
I'm more interested in what constitutes winning. Are we there until there are no more armed "protests?" Are we there until the Iraqi army and police are just as good at getting blown up without us? Are we there until Iraqi women have equal rights? Just how far are we expected to go to spread Democracy? I'm sure it's the week after their "Democratic" oil starts flowing into our SUVs.

The oil flowed no matter who was in charge.

Originally posted by Mephisto
If it takes posting cardboard signs along highways to get America to realize that "forced Democracy" is an oxymoron that only a frigging moron can believe in, count me in.

I don't believe the eight million Iraqis who voted were forced to do so.

I believe those that are having democracy "forced" on them are the ones who are setting bombs off to kill other Iraqis who are working to build their country.

I don't know about you, but I'm rooting for the ones that want to shape their future through voting. If that means democracy is "forced" on the small minority that wants to shape their future by bombing and shooting their fellow Iraqis, I'm okay with that.

 

[RandFan]

I believe those that are having democracy "forced" on them are the ones who are setting bombs off to kill other Iraqis who are working to build their country.

I don't know about you, but I'm rooting for the ones that want to shape their future through voting. If that means democracy is "forced" on the small minority that wants to shape their future by bombing and shooting their fellow Iraqis, I'm okay with that.

Yeah, we want to force you to have the ability to shape your future and decide for yourself what is best for you. Gasp

 

[Skeptic]

I don't know about you, but I'm rooting for the ones that want to shape their future through voting. If that means democracy is "forced" on the small minority that wants to shape their future by bombing and shooting their fellow Iraqis, I'm okay with that.

Indeed so. Of course, one needs to be careful what sort of democracy it will be, as well. It better not be the kind of election just good enough to win the approval of Jimmy Carter and other pathetic fools who never saw a dictator they didn't like.

 

[Ed]

He said, "you break it, you pay for it."

I thought he said

"You break it, it's yours"

 

[Mephisto]

He said, "you break it, you pay for it."

Thanks! I always mess up those clichés. Especially that one about dating, "why drink the milk when you can screw the cow for free . . . " or something like that.

 

[CapelDodger]

Thanks! I always mess up those clichés. Especially that one about dating, "why drink the milk when you can screw the cow for free . . . " or something like that.

You're not from sheep country then? I think you're alluding to "Why have a dog when your wife's barking?", but it's a common mistake.

 

[Mephisto]

You're not from sheep country then? I think you're alluding to "Why have a dog when your wife's barking?", but it's a common mistake.

 

[Manny]

I thought he said

"You break it, it's yours"

It's worse than that. He said "If you break it, He will come.