American Exceptionalism

[gnome]

I think the idea of "exceptionalism" is something to aspire to, not something that is one's birthright.

We can become exceptional by our deeds, not by existing in the designated place.

 

[Carnivore]

The USA is unique as the worlds richest and most powerful democracy. American culture has gone global in a way that no other has before. American political, financial and cultural influence is everywhere. The USA is exceptional in that regard.

Since becoming a superpower, the USA has mostly operated under the principle "with great power comes great responsibility." In spite of mistakes and excesses over the decades the world is fortunate that it's most powerful country is one like the USA. It's population is largely idealistic and commited to the promotion of indivdual rights and liberties.

Sure, the actions of US governments can be arrogant and the President being described as "Leader Of The Free World" is annoying, (the free world doesn't get to vote for him after all) but without a country like the USA in a position of as much power as the USA the world really would be worse than it already is.

I don't think that the USA has a sacred mission to civilize the world or has a uniquely wonderful political system. I don't think that the USA's laws and government policies are inherently better than those of any other Western democracy - in fact they are often clearly not. I don't think Americans are better people or more enterprising than you find elsewhere. I am glad the USA is there though.

 

[GreyArea]

OMG, that's horrible!

This one is better (or more horrible, if you catch my drift).

 

[Beerina]

I think the idea of "exceptionalism" is something to aspire to, not something that is one's birthright.

We can become exceptional by our deeds, not by existing in the designated place.

Thank you.


Two things:

1. Go read some Hitchens where he's rooting around through the dregs of various societies on this planet, and finds great respect for the US, when "everybody in the US knows everyone hates us."

2. 20 years ago I was in the Netherlands, standing in line at the supermarket. The old gentleman behind me heard me talking to the cashier, and said, "Oh, you are English?"

I said, "No, I am American."

"Oh!" he said, "We appreciate you more than you know!"



That's the context in which the Dutch helped in the invasion of Iraq, and the same context that the Polish and others, who we rushed into NATO as defense against the potentially resurgent Russia/USSR, also helping as a "thank you".

That was not a proud moment for the US.

 

[RenaissanceBiker]

I believe in personal exceptionalism.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Of course America is unique. All nations are unique. Except Bulgaria which is a clone of Hungary.

I think the idea of "exceptionalism" is something to aspire to, not something that is one's birthright.

We can become exceptional by our deeds, not by existing in the designated place.

Well played. It's a legacy to try and extend, not a guarantee.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

I'm proud to be an America.

And so can you!

Actually I find the poll to be quite reasonable. Good show.

I do believe in American Exceptionalism, with some caveats -- I think the means for us to achieve this is through example, by trading and dealing in good faith, and not so much through force of arms or subterfuge.

I also think we have to continually renew our own commitment to our goal, and that even today we are well short of our potential. The United States of America has made many mistakes over the years, some of them flat out awful. No point sugar-coating it, better to acknowledge it and try to do better. There's lots of work to do.

I also work with a volunteer group that aims to do exactly this, through teaching (accurate) American history and heritage.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject. America is exceptional for a number of reasons, but with regard to being manifestation and promoter of liberal democracy world-wide, we've strived and failed - sometimes miserably, but at least we have tried.

If you want to see American exceptionalism as I view it action, check out what we did with regard to Germany and Japan after WW II. Shame we didn't promote liberal democracy as fervently in the Jim Crow South during the same time period.

 

[RandFan]

And so can you!

Doh!

 

[Childlike Empress]

Thanks for voting everyone. I'm glad to see that less people than i'd expected voted for the Coffman "Übermensch" option. I can certainly understand why people would vote for the Obama version of American Exceptionalism, but even in theory, leaving the practical examples of hypocrisy aside, i'm with the opinion that the founding ideas did not happen in a vacuum but relied on thoughts already thought by the European Enlightenment.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Concluding, less than 15% of Americans voting in this poll are "real" Americans according to Coffman and his accusations against Obama.

 

[tomwaits]

i'm with the opinion that the founding ideas did not happen in a vacuum but relied on thoughts already thought by the European Enlightenment.

Of course. Example: the change in the Declaration of Independence from "We hold these truths to be sacred and undeniable" to "We hold these truths to be self-evident" shows a deliberate emphasis of reason over religion (in theory, anyway).

 

[R.Mackey]

I can certainly understand why people would vote for the Obama version of American Exceptionalism, but even in theory, leaving the practical examples of hypocrisy aside, i'm with the opinion that the founding ideas did not happen in a vacuum but relied on thoughts already thought by the European Enlightenment.

I'd agree with that, and I can't think of a serious historian who wouldn't. Just to pick one example, the Founders leaned very heavily upon John Locke. However, there is something to be said for other existing conditions that let these ideas from the Enlightenment take root here in a way they didn't elsewhere.

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

They didn't copy only from the European Enlightenment, but also from the Iroquois constitution. A collection of states acting as a nation isn't European, it's Native American.

 

[Dragoonster]

American exceptionalism relates to the exceptional nature of the setup of the government, reserving ultimate power to the people, as opposed to kings, tyrants, dictators, et al.

Pretty bizarre considering (beyond that this system was implemented millenia ago) that less than 30% of the people had any say in voting for their leaders despite being affected by laws. Blacks couldn't vote. Women couldn't vote. Indians couldn't vote. Anyone under 21 couldn't vote.

Great job, adult white male exceptionalists' democracy according to yourselves only.

[p.s. the US is not the first to allow women voting, or blacks voting, modern age]

BTW, "taxation without representation" (and true democracy) is still unresolved. Anyone under 18 who earns money is taxed, yet cannot vote for a representative.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

BTW, "taxation without representation" (and true democracy) is still unresolved. Anyone under 18 who earns money is taxed, yet cannot vote for a representative.

Pedantic quibble. You're conflating representation with enfranchisement. Representatives represent all those who reside in their districts whether they voted for them or not or even if they could vote. This would include minors, permanent residents, those on work visas, etc. Constituent services would respond to requests for assistance from minors and any teenager who cared enough to send their representative a message (call, e-mail, letter) is sure as heck going to vote when they turn 18. If their Rep. wants to get reelected, it's best not to alienate any of your constitutency.

- eta, I'd also add that non-wage earners, like those on disability or stay at home parents pay no federal taxes, but still get the benefits of representation.

Your points about enfranchisement were spot on, but the last bit simply doesn't reflect reality.

 

[Dragoonster]

Pedantic quibble. You're conflating representation with enfranchisementRepresentatives represent all those who reside in their districts whether they voted for them or not or even if they could vote.

Oh, so representatives in 1812 would've been just as democratic as today though no women or blacks were allowed to vote?

Or uh, just how are those who are not allowed to vote, able to ensure their representatives are in their government? Women and niggers in 1812 should've what---written letters to candidates pleading for them to acknowledge them? And that would've been just as good as if they had a 1:1 power votewise as to white males?

Silly "enfranchisment"! Has nothing to do with representation!

This would include minors, permanent residents, those on work visas, etc. Constituent services would respond to requests for assistance from minors and any teenager who cared enough to send their representative a message (call, e-mail, letter) is sure as heck going to vote when they turn 18. If their Rep. wants to get reelected, it's best not to alienate any of your constitutency.

Okay. Not sure what this has to do with a voting priviledge.

- eta, I'd also add that non-wage earners, like those on disability or stay at home parents pay no federal taxes, but still get the benefits of representation.

Your points about enfranchisement were spot on, but the last bit simply doesn't reflect reality.

I don't know what reality is then. I thought in context it meant voting rights, due to either existing as a citizen or failing that, earning money/thus paying taxes to a government.

Taxation without representation doesn't mean non-taxpayers-don't get representation btw, if that what's you're trying to mean with that disability persons thing. I don't know what you're saying actually.

Taxation without representation as a phrase means exactly as much to a 12 year old earning enough to pay taxes as it does a 31 year old not earning enough to do so or a 24 year old disabled not doing so. The general idea seemed to me to be: if your work contributes to the government's coffers, you should have the right to vote for the people that decide how those coffers are spent.

To finalize: I think all citizens of a particular country should be able to vote for that country's leaders, as a requiring aspect of democracy. You apparently think differently.

ETA: My reasoning here ala taxation w/out represention is ridiculolus via those disabled unfortunates. Tax-w/out-rep is only my second most obvouis mandate of a democracy in general (first is just being a citizen), and only primary with regards to pre-18-year-olds getting screwed out of that phrase as an obvious inconsistency.

 

[angrysoba]

I'd agree with that, and I can't think of a serious historian who wouldn't. Just to pick one example, the Founders leaned very heavily upon John Locke. However, there is something to be said for other existing conditions that let these ideas from the Enlightenment take root here in a way they didn't elsewhere.

I think there were many different strains of thought, mostly of the best kind, in those who wanted to rid themselves of the British. Certainly there was some Locke there but also there was quite a bit of "Glorious Revolution" thinking too. Supporters of the Americans such as Edmund Burke didn't necessarily think the Americans were doing something exceptional but rather exercising their rights as supposedly won in the Glorious Revolution. Or, at least, that is how I understand it.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Oh, so representatives in 1812 would've been just as democratic as today though no women or blacks were allowed to vote?

And there we go with putting words into my mouth and erecting a straw man.

Clearly you've got a red, white and blue bug up your but this afternoon, so I'll let you calm down and respond later.

 

[Chaos]

- eta, I'd also add that non-wage earners, like those on disability or stay at home parents pay no federal taxes, but still get the benefits of representation.

They still pay taxes, like sales tax.

 

[Dragoonster]

And there we go with putting words into my mouth and erecting a straw man.

Clearly you've got a red, white and blue bug up your but this afternoon, so I'll let you calm down and respond later.

Okay. Not going to though. This is it:

Erecting exceptionalism with <30% of a voting public is pretty much enough said. At least, if "exceptionalism" means "the public voting for government", and if this supposedly started on America's founding. Exceptionalist my black female 15-year-old ass (in 1800, and then 1865 repeat 1965 and 1920 and to-date).

Good job, USA after 1965 for proving your democratic/progressive exceptionalism!