Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Fulcanelli]

On the contrary - it's pretty easy to make your case. All you have to do is show me that you were right and that other photos were released at the same time.

What like, complete with watermarks and dates on them?

 

[Fulcanelli]

You'll notice that the Daily Mail article tells you what the photo shows:



When of course we know that it doesn't actually show that at all. It shows the bathroom sink and walls smeared with an agent designed to show the presence of blood, not blood itself.

But the prosecution didn't write the caption, the newspaper did.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

No. I am a newspaper reporter. I am trying to clarify misnomers I see on this thread. Amanda and Reffaele returned from his place the morning of Nov. 2. One of Amanda's two other roommates made a motion with her index finger across her neck as Amanda neared her house and noticed the police activity. It was then that she learned a murder took place in her home. The home was taped off. In it was her clothes, passport, and other personal belongings. She and Raffaele went to a variety store and she bought plain underwear as she had no access to her clothes in her house.

As has been pointed out, you appear to be the one severely misled.


The Postal Police testified that they found Knox and Sollecito at Knox's house when they arrived. It wasn't until after the PP forced the door open that Sollecito called the regular Police. This is actually proven with the phone and police records and is not, in any way, in dispute. Not by anyone (besides, perhaps, those in denial).

 

[Fulcanelli]

I am trying to clarify misnomers I see on this thread. Amanda and Reffaele returned from his place the morning of Nov. 2. One of Amanda's two other roommates made a motion with her index finger across her neck as Amanda neared her house and noticed the police activity

This did not happen at all. And if anyone has any doubt, I refer them to Amanda's own testimony on the stand: AMANDA KNOX TRIAL TESTIMONY

She and Raffaele went to a variety store and she bought plain underwear as she had no access to her clothes in her house.

Actually it was a skimpy thong and the store owner overheard them talking about rushing home for hot sex, they seemed very turned on for some reason. And have you seen the video store pictures of them buying the thong? They were having such a good time

 

[Matthew Best]

What like, complete with watermarks and dates on them?

I note that on PMF (the site that most here seem to consider the best) I find the following:

A tabloid paper has just published (online) two photographs which it says have been released by the police, and are reported to be from the Perugia flat, but details are slight.

Huh? Weird, only two photos? Not "a whole batch"?

And Perugia Shock (the site most here don't put much store by) says:

Wednesday, January 16, 2008

Police gave out two more pictures for our bloody album.

For some reason he doesn't mention all the other photos they gave out in that same batch.

Back at PMF you can see the reaction the photos caused:

In view of the photo of the bathroom, Amanda's statement that she thought maybe one of her roommates might have had a problem with her period is beyond absurd.

The photo’s are gruesome. I can’t imagine Amanda taking a shower in that mess in the bathroom.

We already knew there was blood in at least one the bathroom. This is nothing new, only the sight of it is more than we expected, considering AK's "menstrual problem" suggestion.

There is also this:

Does anyone understand why the police would release any of these horrifying photos to the press?

I have been wondering about the leaks that I believe have been selectively released by the investigators since the murder, and feel that the police have their own PR agenda.

 

[stilicho]

I was under the impression of their innocence, mainly due to the dubious DNA evidence and simply finding it hard to believe that Knox would have been capable of that.
Having looked at the rest of the evidence and the consistent lying of the suspects regarding timelines, Im becoming convinced that they were involved in a clean up and staged break in.

If you go way back in this thread that was my original impression too. The only reason I participated in this was because the Seattle media spun a very very different tale than what was actually presented in court.

It wasn't until I discovered PMF that I found out about the David Marriott PR campaign to discredit the Italian justice system and make this into a "railroad job from hell" (peddled by Paul Ciolino on 48 Hours Mystery on CBS). If you're anything like me it seemed like a girl was convicted for doing cartwheels in a police station. Once you put on your skepti-goggles it turns out to be nothing of the sort.

 

[stilicho]

Huh? Weird, only two photos? Not "a whole batch"?

MB, the perpetrators weren't convicted on the basis of Sun photos or YouTube videos. They were convicted on the basis of overwhelming evidence collected at the crimescene and statements, testimony, and witnesses.

If the YouTube and Sun photos don't jive with you then that's really your problem. I have few doubts that the prosecutors didn't rely on them and there's no evidence that they did.

 

[stilicho]

The Postal Police testified that they found Knox and Sollecito at Knox's house when they arrived. It wasn't until after the PP forced the door open that Sollecito called the regular Police. This is actually proven with the phone and police records and is not, in any way, in dispute. Not by anyone (besides, perhaps, those in denial).

To be absolutely accurate, it was not the Postal Police who broke down Meredith's door. It was outside their jurisdiction so Luca actually did it for them.

 

[Matthew Best]

MB, the perpetrators weren't convicted on the basis of Sun photos or YouTube videos. They were convicted on the basis of overwhelming evidence collected at the crimescene and statements, testimony, and witnesses.

If the YouTube and Sun photos don't jive with you then that's really your problem. I have few doubts that the prosecutors didn't rely on them and there's no evidence that they did.

If you don't want to discuss the photos, for whatever reason, then no-one is insisting that you do so.

 

[Matthew Best]

It wasn't until after the PP forced the door open that Sollecito called the regular Police. This is actually proven with the phone and police records and is not, in any way, in dispute. Not by anyone (besides, perhaps, those in denial).

I believe it was disputed by the defence at the trial, but I suppose they would be included in your definition in brackets.

 

[stilicho]

They were having such a good time

She had fully convinced him that they'd gotten away with it. Neither of them realised that they were under careful surveillance from NOV 02 until their arrests.

They both really did think they were smarter than the cops.

 

[stilicho]

If you don't want to discuss the photos, for whatever reason, then no-one is insisting that you do so.

I don't think they're relevant to the case. Do you? If so, why?

 

[JihadJane]

I am not sure what you mean. Italy does not have an adversarial legal system, and that is the only legal system under discussion in this thread. Or are you comparing it favourably to the systems in the UK and USA?

I was being ignorant and using "adversarial" in the sense of two sides slagging each other off as if it were a football match.

Actually it was a skimpy thong and the store owner overheard them talking about rushing home for hot sex, they seemed very turned on for some reason. And have you seen the video store pictures of them buying the thong? They were having such a good time

Are you sure you're not exaggerating and sensationalizing a wee bit here, Fulcanelli?


Were any swabs taken to prove how turned on they were?

 

[stilicho]

I believe it was disputed by the defence at the trial...

You're right. It was. But the CCTV showed that the Postal Police were already there before RS called the carabinieri. His defence team put the arrival of the Postal Police a half hour later to accommodate this.

Note, too, that RS called his sister, who worked for the carabinieri before he called 112 (their version of 911).

The defence was never able to prove that RS called anyone before the Postal Police arrived.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Huh? Weird, only two photos? Not "a whole batch"?

It says the paper published two because it published two, it does 'not' say those were the only photos available to publish.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Are you sure you're not exaggerating and sensationalizing a wee bit here, Fulcanelli?

Hi JihadJane. Decide for yourself: NEWSWEEK

 

[JihadJane]

Hi JihadJane. Decide for yourself: NEWSWEEK

I don't see any evidence of their being "very turned on".

How do you know that the reportedly overheard comment, "Afterwards I'm going to take you home so we can have wild sex together", wasn't just an inconsequential joke?

 

[Fulcanelli]

I don't see any evidence of their being "very turned on".

How do you know that the reportedly overheard comment, "Afterwards I'm going to take you home so we can have wild sex together", wasn't just an inconsequential joke?

According to the testimony of the witness, they weren't joking. But anyway, at least you're of the frame of mind to accept that the day immediately following her house mate's brutal murder they were joking around.

 

[Fulcanelli]

List of Who's Who

For those looking to research the case, here's a useful list of 'who's who'. You can then enter the name of an individual who gave whatever testimony you happen to be interested into the search engines of google/sites/blogs/forums specialising in the case: MAXIME LAMONTAGNE

 

[Chris_Halkides]

I have no real evidence other than what we've seen/heard about how clean the apartment was (besides, perhaps, Kercher's room). In this case, the lack of evidence is intriguing.

The knife in Sollecito's apt, for instance, shows signs of being cleaned in an extreme/unusual manner (from one of your first posts). While not a clincher, given that the knife had barely any of Meredith's blood and Knox's DNA with no really valid alibi for how Meredith came into contact with it, it certainly appears that someone cleaned the knife vigorously with bleach attempting to remove traces of Meredith's blood.

The distinct lack of fingerprints in Knox's room. The distinct lack of Sollecito's DNA in an entire house that he had visited multiple times.

The lack of DNA on Meredith's body, the only DNA evidence found was of Guede's DNA inside, where it couldn't be scrubbed off.

We know that the bloody footprints in the hallway as well as the blood splatters in the bathroom were cleaned and only revealed with luminol (excepting the bathmat that Knox and Sollecito perhaps hadn't quite managed to clean before the Postal Police arrived).

There's also the finding of Meredith's clothes in the washer/drier, actively running at the time the Police arrived.

Each one on it's own isn't all that compelling, but when put together...we find evidence of a (failed) cleanup.

None of Meredith's blood was found on the knife at all, and how one could clean a knife to remove blood but not DNA is one of several factors that make the claim of finding DNA on this knife dubious at best. (see upthread for links).

Chris