Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Kestrel]

Is it also possible that Sollecito's DNA expert knows more than they do? That their objections have already been raised in court? That these objections have been subjected to cross-examination by the prosecution experts? And by the DNA expert brought into court by the Kercher family?

All the principals in this case, including the Kercher family, had their own experts in court to testify about the science and the forensics. I would be behind you 100% that something important was missed if everyone sat back and watched the prosecution speculate wildly while they brought in amateurs and frauds. But this is clearly not what happened. All the evidence was scrutinised carefully by the defence teams and challenged on any grounds they had available.

Did Sollecito's family hire an incompetent DNA expert? I posted his experience and expertise a few pages back and nobody has yet challenged his competence. Will you be the first?

Your argument is basically that we can't dispute the court ruling because the court has already ruled. May I suggest starting your own thread for people who don't want to discuss the details of case?

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Your argument is basically that we can't dispute the court ruling because the court has already ruled. May I suggest starting your own thread for people who don't want to discuss the details of case?

No, his argument is that there are experts on both sides. The defense experts couldn't explain away the DNA results the way that you (and the list of 9 that Halides1 keeps throwing out) continue to claim to be valid.

You have yet to even come close to explaining how Sollecito's DNA could be on the clasp in a heavy amount without being found anywhere else in the house - even in a light amount.

 

[Kestrel]

Nope. There is such a thing as expertise. I am sorry if you do not believe that but it is not true that a lay person has the knowledge of a chemist or a psychologist or a lawyer. He could acquire it: but he hasn't. We are not all equally educated or experienced in every field: and if we do not trust those who have genuine skills then I think we are the losers.

In this particular case it seems to me that there is a lot of evidence quite apart from the DNA: but that still does not seem to me to warrant your certainty of incompetence on the basis of what we have seen so far

When a doctor goes from patient to patient in a hospital, they wash their hands and put on fresh gloves for a reason. The idea is to avoid transferring infections from one patient to the next.

Collecting DNA evidences is similar. Whatever touches the evidence should be sterile to avoid transfer of foreign material to the evidence. It's also good practice to handle as little of the evidence as possible. Using disposable or known sterile tweezers is fine, but you have to get a new set to pick up the next item. Sterile gloves would work, as long as you touch nothing else between putting them on and picking up the evidence. But when we look at the video, we don't see this kind of precaution. The gloves touch all sorts of things and then handle the evidence.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

When a doctor goes from patient to patient in a hospital, they wash their hands and put on fresh gloves for a reason. The idea is to avoid transferring infections from one patient to the next.

Collecting DNA evidences is similar. Whatever touches the evidence should be sterile to avoid transfer of foreign material to the evidence. It's also good practice to handle as little of the evidence as possible. Using disposable or known sterile tweezers is fine, but you have to get a new set to pick up the next item. Sterile gloves would work, as long as you touch nothing else between putting them on and picking up the evidence. But when we look at the video, we don't see this kind of precaution. The gloves touch all sorts of things and then handle the evidence.

And yet there is no other evidence of Sollecito's DNA in the room/house except for the cigarette butt

 

[Kestrel]

No, his argument is that there are experts on both sides. The defense experts couldn't explain away the DNA results the way that you (and the list of 9 that Halides1 keeps throwing out) continue to claim to be valid.

You have yet to even come close to explaining how Sollecito's DNA could be on the clasp in a heavy amount without being found anywhere else in the house - even in a light amount.

Sollecito's DNA was found on a cigarette butt collected from the house. It's also known for certain that he had been there. To spread some DNA, all he would have to do is sneeze. And contrary to the claims made earlier in this thread, the police couldn't have swabbed every surface of the apartment. They didn't take nearly enough samples to do that.

BTW - How many nanograms is a heavy amount of DNA?

 

[Matthew Best]

By the way, are we in agreement that the YouTube and the Sun photo do not show the same scene?

I believe they show the same room at different times, the video shows the room before it was processed by forensic officers, the photo afterwards.

What do you think they show?

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Sollecito's DNA was found on a cigarette butt collected from the house. It's also known for certain that he had been there. To spread some DNA, all he would have to do is sneeze. And contrary to the claims made earlier in this thread, the police couldn't have swabbed every surface of the apartment. They didn't take nearly enough samples to do that.

BTW - How many nanograms is a heavy amount of DNA?

And yet his DNA was found nowhere else in the house (except the cig butt)

400+ swabs, 2 items that had his DNA on them. If his DNA is as abundant as you claim (and would be necessary for cross-contamination) then why was none found anywhere else? Not just light traces, but a complete absence.

And Fiona has already posted about the amounts found. As I recall, 1.4ngrams was found on the bra clasp, 100pgrams is considered a decent amount. 14x the decent amount was found.

And, yet, none of Sollecito's DNA was found anywhere else in the room or on any of the 400+ swabs.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

I believe they show the same room at different times, the video shows the room before it was processed by forensic officers, the photo afterwards.

What do you think they show?

My understanding is that the 2nd photo is taken with luminol revealing where blood was in the bathroom.

If so, that's quite a bit of blood for someone to take a shower before calling someone (as Knox claims to have done).

Somehow, I doubt all of those streaks are directly from blood (I also believe there were only 3 sources of blood tested in the bathroom for DNA)

 

[scissorhands]

I saw mention on PMF of Sollecitos purchase of bleach on the morning following the murder.
Is that confirmed or not?

 

[steverino]

I saw mention on PMF of Sollecitos purchase of bleach on the morning following the murder.
Is that confirmed or not?

This bleach theory fell apart months ago. A "witness" who worked in a shop was paid by a British tabloid to state that Amanda bought bleach.

 

[steverino]

All the evidence was scrutinised carefully by the defence teams and challenged on any grounds they had available.

While the defense team scrutinized the prosecution's DNA findings, the defense's findings were never revealed to the jurors. That opportunity comes during the appeal.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

This bleach theory fell apart months ago. A "witness" who worked in a shop was paid by a British tabloid to state that Amanda bought bleach.

Someone mentioned a receipt was found in Sollecito's apt verifying the witness's account...

 

[steverino]

If so, that's quite a bit of blood for someone to take a shower before calling someone (as Knox claims to have done)

No one took a shower the night of the murder or the day after the murder in the house where the murder took place. Rudy Guede took a poop just before he stabbed Meredith to death. That was the key DNA in the bathroom.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

No one took a shower the night of the murder or the day after the murder in the house where the murder took place. Rudy Guede took a poop just before he stabbed Meredith to death. That was the key DNA in the bathroom.

Knox testified that after she arrived the morning after, she took a shower, and then went back to Sollecito's.

 

[steverino]

Someone mentioned a receipt was found in Sollecito's apt verifying the witness's account...

Sadly, there were a lot of "someones" and many were paid by the same tabloids claiming the bleach theory. The receipt is a red herring.

 

[steverino]

Knox testified that after she arrived the morning after, she took a shower, and then went back to Sollecito's.

I have not heard this. The morning following the murder the house was taped off. She was forbidden to enter.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

I have not heard this. The morning following the murder the house was taped off. She was forbidden to enter.

Knox and Sollecito were at the house when the Postal Police arrived. In fact, nearly the entire duration of the visit from the Postal Police, Knox and Sollecito were in Knox's room.

Have you looked at any of the posts that laid out the timeline?

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Sadly, there were a lot of "someones" and many were paid by the same tabloids claiming the bleach theory. The receipt is a red herring.

Unless, you know, it really was found by the Police. In which case, the witness' testimony is not so much in question, is it?

 

[scissorhands]

Unless, you know, it really was found by the Police. In which case, the witness' testimony is not so much in question, is it?

This is why I asked.
There is mention of reciepts, two in fact, with times of purchase on them.
Did they exist, were they produced in court?

 

[steverino]

Knox and Sollecito were at the house when the Postal Police arrived. In fact, nearly the entire duration of the visit from the Postal Police, Knox and Sollecito were in Knox's room.

Have you looked at any of the posts that laid out the timeline?

No. I am a newspaper reporter. I am trying to clarify misnomers I see on this thread. Amanda and Reffaele returned from his place the morning of Nov. 2. One of Amanda's two other roommates made a motion with her index finger across her neck as Amanda neared her house and noticed the police activity. It was then that she learned a murder took place in her home. The home was taped off. In it was her clothes, passport, and other personal belongings. She and Raffaele went to a variety store and she bought plain underwear as she had no access to her clothes in her house.