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Alternate History

catsmate1 said:
You might want to avoid Piers Anthony if you don't like puns. :)
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It isn't that I don't like puns; I love them. The problem is Turtledove's puns and jokes often distract from the story by ruining my suspension of disbelief. Using the Engels Brothers example I mentioned earlier, because Turtledove is playing something in his alternate timeline against something that happens in his alternate timeline, it reminds me that it is an alternate timeline. Possibly this doesn't bother some people, but it does me.
 
50 posts on Alternative History and no mention of West of Eden?
OK, I know it's an AH where the split began 26 million years ago, but even so.
 
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SpitfireIX said:
It isn't that I don't like puns; I love them. The problem is Turtledove's puns and jokes often distract from the story by ruining my suspension of disbelief. Using the Engels Brothers example I mentioned earlier, because Turtledove is playing something in his alternate timeline against something that happens in his alternate timeline, it reminds me that it is an alternate timeline. Possibly this doesn't bother some people, but it does me.
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I just happened to reread my post and I realized that I miswrote, so that the above paragraph makes no sense. :o I meant to say that when Turtledove plays something in his alternate timeline against something in our real timeline, it draws attention to the fact that the alternate timeline is contrived, and ruins my suspension of disbelief.
 
SpitfireIX said:
It isn't that I don't like puns; I love them. The problem is Turtledove's puns and jokes often distract from the story by ruining my suspension of disbelief. Using the Engels Brothers example I mentioned earlier, because Turtledove is playing something in his alternate timeline against something that happens in his alternate timeline, it reminds me that it is an alternate timeline. Possibly this doesn't bother some people, but it does me.
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SpitfireIX said:
I just happened to reread my post and I realized that I miswrote, so that the above paragraph makes no sense. :o I meant to say that when Turtledove plays something in his alternate timeline against something in our real timeline, it draws attention to the fact that the alternate timeline is contrived, and ruins my suspension of disbelief.
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Your meaning got, don't worry. I see where you're coming from, about the jarring, concerning "alternative timeline versus our real timeline"; am aware that this thing which Turtledove does re same, irritates a good number of readers. I confess to rather enjoying it, myself -- even in the more extreme form where he brings in actual characters from our own timeline, who logically would never have been born, with the timeline break-point being "x AD". Instances of this in the Southern Victory series -- quite a big role taken by Joseph Kennedy, JFK's father; and cameo appearances by Barry Goldwater and Jimmy Carter. I know this is illogical and potentially ruining of the illusion; it just tickles me. Maybe I would just never make a serious alternative-history aficionado.

As regards puns in the pure-wordplay sense; I enjoy them in reasonable-sized doses -- but the books where Turtledove goes completely mad non-stop with that stuff, are a big turn-off for me.
 
sophia8 said:
50 posts on Alternative History and no mention of West of Eden?
OK, I know it's an AH where the split began 26 million years ago, but even so.
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This is a favourite of mine too but I wasn't sure, if the divergence took place before even pre-history, whether it counted!

Similarly Rainbow Mars by Larry Niven which has multiple alternate/fantasy histories which I enjoyed (once I'd understood the premise - it's the sort of book which would probably be more enjoyable on the second read) is sort of AH but not quite.

Yuri
 
I can recommend H. Beam Piper. The Paratime Police stories are excellant. Mostly depend on switch points very far back in history. They'd make a wonderful basis for a movie or television series.
 
Pope130 said:
I can recommend H. Beam Piper. The Paratime Police stories are excellant. Mostly depend on switch points very far back in history. They'd make a wonderful basis for a movie or television series.
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Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen and sequels could easily fuel a series on their own.
ETA: many of the Paratime stories can be found on Project Gutenberg.
 
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catsmate1 said:
Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen and sequels could easily fuel a series on their own.
ETA: many of the Paratime stories can be found on Project Gutenberg.
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There was a discussion on the old USENET group soc.history.what-if regarding what AH stories would make good movies. Lord Kalvan was a very popular choice, and there were several posts on casting, setting, and the like. (Also posts with gun puns, but that's another mauser -- er. matter.)

:blackcat:
 
catsmate1 said:
As I've said elsewhere in the forum I'm a bit of an obsessive fan of alternat(iv)e history, or counterfactuals as some academics call them, that is history that didn't happen. I'm not sure exactly why, though I'm also interested in actual history, even to the point of (nearly) completing a doctorate in it.
I've been reading1 and collecting them for over a quarter century, some good, some bad, some awful, many mediocre.

So, are there any other fans in here? Any favourite themes? World War 2, US Civil War, or paths less taken..........
Recommended books?
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No apologies for reviving this excellent thread. I've just read "Dominion" by CJ Sansom and I was pretty pleased with it really. Basically it is a thriller set, in 1952, against the backdrop of a Britain where Churchill had failed to secure the post of prime minister, resulting in a surrender to the Nazis after Dunkirk and Britain becoming a Dominion of Germany. It came across as well researched with good characterisation, excellent back stories and a wonderfully, clinically cruel but disturbingly sympathetic baddie.

Well, they say you get more right-wing as you get older!

Yuri
 
luchog said:
Interesting that his writing would be so bad there; because I really liked The Hammer and the Cross. Although that one was written in collaboration with Tom Shippey, which probably made a huge difference.
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New to the party, but yes I liked that too.

Don't like Turtledove, because in what little I have read, where I know a little about things, I find gaping errors. And I am very far from an expert.

And his conceit of having famous people in a completely different role and background but the same name and some similar attributes, just grated. Upthread, there was a mention of him putting Castro somewhere irrelevant, which is similar to what I was thinking.
 
The Baroque Cycle by Neal Stephenson. I found that fun.
 
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