All 9/11 ideas welcomed here

so bet on the world when a band of rebels in britan decided to revolutionize the world and create the greatest democracy in the world with the greatest liberties the world has ever known, ya America! It's not always so simple
 
If known MIT professors claim the wtc was a CD,

Which MIT professors are these?

and known experts in CD and building contruction claim wtc 7 was imploaded

Three, by all accounts, one of whom has clearly said that WTC1 and 2 weren't CDs.

that should be enough mustard to build a theory, but since many other disagree with that...we can't prove it. Who cares, deal with things you can prove like i said before...

So what can you prove? I've yet to see you even try to prove your allegations about Rockefellers and Illuminati.

if so many people have studied wtc7 for example tell me where i can find 100 experts that have studied it in detail and overwhelmingly believe it fell from fires and collapsing beams

They're called NIST. There should be a report out some time soon, and if it suggests that CD was a likely cause of the collapse of WTC7 then a great many people here will have to re-examine their assumptions, myself included. I'm not holding my breath, though.

and then tell me why the other few believe it was a CD...

Who knows why anyone believes anything? One of them got ambushed in an interview and has been very quiet since. The other two, I don't know. If they're serious about it, no doubt they'll submit a paper to a reputable peer-reviewed journal some time, then we'll see their reasoning.

I have not studied it enough but I continue to reply in here because I assume some of you must know these things...guess not

If you've decided nobody here really does know these things, then by all means look elsewhere.

Dave
 
He used my toothbrush at NWO camp last year. And he took my lunch when I wasn't looking.

Sorry, Jim -- I was going to tell you about that, but W threatened to give me an Atomic Wedgie™.



israelside said:
Why couldn't they wrap thermate around the column in a horizontal manner and secure it with steel clamps, so the time it melts the outter clamp it would melt the column enough to weaken it and since its horizontal melting downard would be no problem.
Really? Wrap it around the column? REALLY? And what kind of clamps do you propose they would use? Seen any evidence for those clamps? How much damage do you suppose that would do to a column before the thermite was able to melt through those clamps? And considering the direction of load (I'm sure there's a technical term for that), how far into the columns would it have to melt in order to create any appreciable melting? Feel free to post calculations.
 
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Are you speaking hypothetically, or is there an MIT professor who claims WTC (any WTC) was a CD?


Just 100? That's easy, just take a look at the names of the experts who have worked on the NIST analysis.

Now, what experts believe it was a CD? Jowenko? OK, there's one. You can always find one person in a group who would agree that Cap'n Crunch did it. Any more?

jeff king at MIT...

Other than NIST...independent organizations
 
Yulp, about as much as I'd expect from you...another foolish joke that only makes light of a serious question. Maybe you need to ease back on the drinking Jim or is that your illegal drugs you bought from the cia? ;)
What? You don't believe me? I've got as much proof of it as you do that the Illuminati control world affairs!
Come to NWO camp next year, and I'll show you around!
 
Jeff King?!? I must have missed that news - when was he hired as a professor at MIT?

Hint: look this one up, you just might learn something about the credibility of CT sources.
 
Why couldn't they wrap thermate around the column in a horizontal manner and secure it with steel clamps, so the time it melts the outter clamp it would melt the column enough to weaken it and since its horizontal melting downard would be no problem.
You are going to wrap powder around a column with clamps. Who took off the 3 inches of wallboard? Funny stuff, and you said you knew thermite.
 
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Jeff King?!? I must have missed that news - when was he hired as a professor at MIT?

Hint: look this one up, you just might learn something about the credibility of CT sources.

all i see is he studied engineering at MIT and is a phsician, can't find much else about him...
 
all i see is he studied engineering at MIT and is a phsician, can't find much else about him...
But you were looking for his being an engineering professor at MIT, right? And you didn't find that.

Jeff King got a bachelor's degree in engineering in the 1970s from MIT, along with a biology degree IIRC. For the last 25 years, he's been doing some kind of family practice physician thing in California (although I've never found anything about a medical degree). He's not an MIT engineering professor.
 
And it was electrical engineering, IIRC.


...Whatever happened to old Plague Puppy, anyway? You don't hear much about him anymore.
 
People that have a great deal of experience but arn't associated with the gov't in any way...
but thats the problem, when someone says something you dont liek CTers dig up the most tenuous connections to the government they can find just to discredit the person, theyll find out he designed a post office building in 1983 and say hes a government contractor

or, failing that, they just invent a nonexistant connection liek with ben chertoff
 
People that have a great deal of experience but arn't associated with the gov't in any way...

Local? state? federal?

Can they be registered in a political party?

Does filing for gov't permits or working to gov't-mandated codes or working with gov't-appointed inspectors "associate" them with the gov't in some way?

It's very important that you be specific in your definition of "independent", otherwise you exclude literally everyone qualified, if not everyone period.

edit: especially in a country like the US, where public and private works are so intertwined and interdependent, and people...PEOPLE!!!...move in and out of government positions seamlessly.
 
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Local? state? federal?

Can they be registered in a political party?

Does filing for gov't permits or working to gov't-mandated codes or working with gov't-appointed inspectors "associate" them with the gov't in some way?

It's very important that you be specific in your definition of "independent", otherwise you exclude literally everyone qualified, if not everyone period.

edit: especially in a country like the US, where public and private works are so intertwined and interdependent, and people...PEOPLE!!!...move in and out of government positions seamlessly.

And (please correct me if I'm wrong) doesn't the US Gov. contract MIT for certain projects? I would think that would exclude King from the group of "...people that have a great deal of experience but arn't associated with the gov't in any way..."
 
so you're saying its impossible to glue thermate to a column and melt it enough to weaken it? if not completely melt it? if you can then thats what i mean by my statement!

Iraelside, I am sure this as already been addressed but hopefully you can clear this up for me. The problem I have is I debate guys just like you on other forums. Now they all say that there were explosions, lots and lots of reports of explosions. Here is an example.

Re firefighters who reported bombs in the WTC:

-NEW YORK TIMES ‘ORAL HISTORIES’ - WTC TASK FORCE INTERVIEWS
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER STEPHEN GREGORY Interview Date: October 3, 2001
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110008.PDF

pgs 14-16: I know I was with an officer from Ladder 146, a Lieutenant Evangelista, who ultimately called me up a couple of days later just to find out how I was. We both for whatever reason -- again, I don't know how valid this is with everything that was going on at that particular point in time, but for some reason I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought... I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.

Q. Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was?

A. No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, but he asked me. He said I don't know if I'm crazy, but I just wanted to ask you because you were standing right next to me. He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did you see any flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them, too... it's just strange that two people sort of say the same thing and neither one of us talked to each other about it. …

Q. On the television pictures it appeared as well, before the first collapse, that there was an explosion up on the upper floors.

A. I know about the explosion on the upper floors. This was like eye level. I didn't have to go like this. Because I was looking this way. I'm not going to say it was on the first floor or the second floor, but somewhere in that area I saw to me what appeared to be flashes. I don't know how far down this was already. I mean, we had heard the noise but, you know, I don't know.


-CAPTAIN KARIN DESHORE Interview Date: November 7, 2001
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110192.PDF

pg 10: I had no clue what was going on. Never turned around because a sound came from somewhere that I never heard before. Some people compared it with an airplane. It was the worst sound of a rolling sound, not a thunder. I can’t explain it, what it was. All I know is -- and a force started to come hit me in my back. I can’t explain it. You had to be there. All I know is I had to run because I thought there was an explosion.

pg 11: Whatever this explosion was simply sucked all the oxygen out of the air.

pg 15: Somewhere around the middle of the world trade center, there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building. I went inside and I told everybody that the other building or there was an explosion occurring up there and I said I think we have another major explosion…

-DEPUTY COMMISSIONER THOMAS FlTZPATRlCK Interview Date: October 1, 2001
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110001.PDF

pgs 13-14: I remember seeing, it looked like sparkling around one specific layer of the building... My initial reaction was that this was exactly the way it looks when they show you those implosions on TV.

FIREFIGHTER EDWARD CACHIA Interview Date: December 6, 2001
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110251.PDF

pg 5: As my officer and I were looking at the south tower, it just gave. It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit, because we originally had thought there was like an internal detonation explosives because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down.


-PARAMEDIC DANIEL RIVERA Interview Date: OCTOBER 10 2001
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110035.PDF

pg 9: It was a frigging noise. At first I thought it was -- do you ever see professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear “pop, pop, pop, pop, pop”? That’s exactly what -- because I thought it was that. When I heard that frigging noise, that’s when I saw the building coming down.


-FIREFIGHTER KENNETH ROGERS Interview Date: December 10, 2001
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110290.PDF

pgs 3-4: … then there was an explosion in the south tower... I figured it was a bomb, because it looked like a synchronized deliberate kind of thing. I was there in '93.


-LIEUTENANT GEORGE J. DeSIMONE Interview Date: October 22, 2001
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110129.PDF

pg 6: The next thing I know, we heard a little bit of a rumbling, and then white powder came from the first collapsed building. I thought it was an explosion initially.

pgs 7-8: After that, I still thought it was an explosion. I thought it was some kind of thermal explosion where I'm either going to get burnt -- and I had kind of ideas that it was going to be something like Hiroshima where all this heat was coming at me and we were going to get burnt...

pg 10: I was fearful that there were bombs in the building. That was my first thought, being the military kind of guy that I am.


-FATHER JOHN DELENDICK Interview Date: December 6, 2001
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110230.PDF

pgs 5-6: I remember asking Ray Downey was it the jet fuel that blew up. He said at that point he thought there were bombs up there because it was too even.



-NBC Reporter, Pat Dawson: “[Albert Turi] the Chief of Safety of the Fire Department of New York City told me he received word of the possibility of a secondary device, that is another bomb going off. He tried to get his men out as quickly as he could, but he said there was another explosion which took place. …That his theory he thinks that there were actually devices that were planted in the building.” Video: http://terrorize.dk/911/witnesses/911.wtc.reporter.1.wmv


FIREFIGHTER TIMOTHY JULIAN Interview Date: December 26, 2001
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110386.PDF

pg 10: … right when we got to the corner of Washington and Albany, that’s when I heard the building collapse. First I thought it was an explosion. I thought maybe there was a bomb on the plane, but delayed type of thing, you know, secondary device. I was convinced for a week it was secondary devices. … You know, and I just heard like an explosion and a then a cracking type of noise, and then it sounded like a freight train, rumbling and picking up speed, and I remember I looked up, and I saw it coming down…

-MSNBC Reporter, Rick Sanchez: "… Police have found what they describe as a suspicious device, and they fear that it might be something that could lead to another explosion...I spoke with some police officials moments ago, Chris, and they told me that they have reason to believe that one of the explosions at the WTC aside from the ones that may have been caused by the impact of the plane with the building, may have been caused by a van that was parked in the building that may have had some type of explosive device in it. So, their fear here is that there may have been explosive devices planted either in the building or in the adjacent area ..."
Video: http://www.terrorize.dk/911/comments/911.w....explosives.wmv

BATTALION CHIEF DOMINICK DeRUBBIO Interview Date: October 12, 2001
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110064.PDF

pg 5: It was weird how it started to come down. It looked like it was a timed explosion


-Reporter: “… there was an explosion. It was way up where the fire was.. and the whole building, at that point, bellied out in flames…”Video: http://terrorize.dk/911/witnesses/911.wtc.reporter.2.wmv


-FIREFIGHTER WILLIAM REYNOLDS Interview Date: December 11, 2001
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110288.PDF

pgs 3-4: After a while, and I don't know how long it was, I was distracted by a large explosion from the south tower and it seemed like fire was shooting out a couple of hundred feet in each direction, then all of a sudden the top of the tower started coming down

-FIREFIGHTER THOMAS TURILLI Interview Date: January 17, 2002
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110501.PDF

pgs 4-5: … sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight

-FIREFIGHTER KEITH MURPHY Interview Date: December 5, 2001
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110238.PDF

pgs 19-20: I had heard right before the lights went out, I had heard distant boom boom boom, sounded like three explosions. I don’t know what it was. At the time, I would have said they sounded like bombs

-War Corespondent, Jack Kelley: "…Apparently what appears to happen was that at the same time two planes hit the building that there... that the FBI most likely thinks that there was a car or truck packed with explosives underneath the buildings which also exploded at the same time, and brought both of them down..."
Video: http://www.terrorize.dk/911/comments/911.w....jack.kelley.rm


-Terrorism Security Expert (used by many news organizations): “We’ve heard reports of secondary explosions after the aircraft impacted, whether in fact there wasn't something else at the base of the towers that in fact were the coup de grace to bring them to the ground.”
Video: http://terrorize.dk/911/comments/911.wtc.s...frey.beatty.wmv

-FIREFIGHTER RICHARD BANACISKI Interview Date: December 6, 2001
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110253.PDF

pgs 3-4: We were there I don't know, maybe 10, 15 minutes and then I just remember there was just an explosion. It seemed like on television they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions.

-FIREFIGHTER CRAIG CARLSEN Interview Date: January 25, 2002
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110505.PDF

pg 6: I guess about three minutes later you just heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions.

-ABC Reporter: “…the entire building has just collapsed as if a demolition team set off....”
Video: http://terrorize.dk/911/comments/911.abc.demolition.team.wmv


-Witness: "I was about five blocks away when I heard explosions... three thuds and turned around to see the building that we just got out of... tip over and fall in on itself."Video: http://terrorize.dk/911/witnesses/911.wtc.witness.1.wmv


-Witness: "...and then all of a sudden it started like... it sounded like gunfire... you know, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang and then all of a sudden three big explosions. "
Video: http://terrorize.dk/911/witnesses/911.wtc.witness.2.wmv

-FDNY: "As we were getting our gear on and making our way to the stairway, there was a heavy duty explosion."
Video: http://terrorize.dk/911/witnesses/heavy.duty.explosion.wmv

-FIREFIGHTER CHRISTOPHER FENYO Interview Date: December 11, 2001
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110295.PDF

pg 3: There was an explosion at the top of the Trade Center and a piece of Trade Center flew across the West Side Highway and hit the Financial Center.

pg 5: About a couple minutes after George came back to me is when the south tower from our perspective exploded from about midway up the building.

pgs 6-7: At that point a debate began to rage because the perception was that the building looked like it had been taken out with charges. We had really no concept of the damage on the east side of 2 World Trade Center at that point, and at that point many people had felt that possibly explosives had taken out 2 World Trade…


-FDNY: "We were trying to get some of the people out, but then there was secondary explosions and then subsequent collapses..." Video: http://www.911blimp.net/videos/FDNY-explosions.mov


-FIREFIGHTER FRANK SWEENEY Interview Date: October 18, 2001
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...HIC/9110113.PDF

pg 9: I hear what sounded like firecrackers and a low rumble. I look up, and the south tower – I could see the top part of the siding overlapping the bottom side of the siding..

Clip of firemen talking about bombs found in one of the towers:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4574366633014832928

* Fireman: "There's a bomb in the building!"
Fireman: "Here we go again"
Fireman: "There's a bomb in the building, start clearing out."
Bystander: "Sorry? Did you say there was a bomb? What did you say?"
Fireman: "Bomb in the building! Start clearing out!"
Fireman: "We gotta get the **** outta here!"
Fireman "There's a secondary device in the building!"
Fireman: "We got a secondary device!"
Fireman: "Got a secondary device in the building!"
Fireman: "Secondary device!"

-FDNY recall "detonations" in South Tower:

fireman: It was as if as if they had detonated, det..
fireman: yea detonated yea
fireman: as if they had planned to take down a building,
boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom ...
Video: http://www.prisonplanet.tv/discussion_in_firehouse.mpg

Now the problem I have is that thermite is actually an incendiary device, it does not explode, it burns. So maybe you could just clear this up for me .Are you saying that all the reported sounds of explosions are false, or are you saying that they are correct?

I am just asking questions, just like you really.
So were there explosions or not? Why did thermite explode, it simply burns, I am curious.
 
I have not studied it enough but I continue to reply in here because I assume some of you must know these things...guess not

You're dangerously close to admitting that you simply WANT the US government to be evil.

Why couldn't they wrap thermate around the column in a horizontal manner and secure it with steel clamps, so the time it melts the outter clamp it would melt the column enough to weaken it and since its horizontal melting downard would be no problem.

You DO know that thermate burns DOWNWARDS ?

so bet on the world when a band of rebels in britan decided to revolutionize the world and create the greatest democracy in the world with the greatest liberties the world has ever known, ya America!

Please check your unwarranted patriotism at the door.

People that have a great deal of experience but arn't associated with the gov't in any way...

Still doing circular reasoning ?
 
Has any ISI agents been arrested or brought to court because of the relationships with Al Qaeda? That would be like saying, sure the bush's and the bin ladens vacation together and have oil interests together, but just ignore all of that when you try to figure out their motives in iraq, afghanistan or the world. Anyone who is half way smart can figure that out gumboot...I didn't say the CIA controls the ISI, but their relationship seems like a good one given pakistan is the major ally in the war on terror in the middle east right?



Arrest the ISI members? You mean, say, have the CIA secretly abduct them and carry them off to a secret prison?

Pakistan is far from a "major" ally. Pakistan's commitment to the War on Terror is lukewarm at best. Unfortunately for all concerned, we need Pakistan as a major player or we have no chance at all of stopped El Terroristo.

Abducting Pakistani government agents is probably not the best way to keep them on side.

-Gumboot
 
I'm not sure whom I would fear more if they were in charge of the world--a secret nefarious cabal of shadowy Illuminati, or somebody like Israelside.

It really is a wash.
 

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