Alka Seltzer

CFLarsen said:
This:



Steve wants to create a modern medical myth. To become another Andrew Wakefield, or Paul Brodeur. You know: Scare people.
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Go hereto Bayer's Alka Selzter websites, this one and links to the side:

http://alkaseltzer.com/as/as_extra_strength.htm

Now consider the fact that there are people, maybe millions of them, have no way of knowing, without web access. Is there anything on these website(s) that the manufacturer of Alka Serltzer admits to with respect to precautions and advisories that should be included with the package for PC and web derived users?


Note that Steve doesn't provide any sources of this one-time case.
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It may be a one time case, unpublished, that I am referring to but as another poister
has pointed out and as the general literature on CHF, pulmonary edema and hypertension
underscores, it is not the only case. The evidence for the need for precautions is self-evident ... and is self-admitted by Alka Seltzer's maker.

Note that Steve has gone from asking leading questions about the possible danger of Alka Selzer to establishing that there are problems with not just sodium, but also aspirin.
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There is a book on pharmacology by Goodman and Gilman. Why don't you study the aspirin
parts and get back to me.

Note that Steve is not interested in negative information that proves him wrong.
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I am very interested in information that says it is not necessary to use a warning label on the package or a package insert to warn buyers/users with feet on the ground who are not
availaling themselves of information on the internet or don't have access to same. Or are too
old or too sick or too uninformed to do so.

This will be a classic example of a pseudoscience scare. One more for the article.
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This would be hysterical if it were not for the fact that every pharmacology std text and Bayer Healthcare itself admits to the issues brought up in this thread. But it is typical of some to yell pseudoscience when there is any effort to inform the populace and
hurt big pharma sales of potentially harmful products, whether Rx or OTC. Thanks for letting us know where you stand. But do yourself a favor and take some time to study the
matter before your accusation of pseudoscience turns out to be the most pseudononymous thing that has come out of this discussion.

So before you proceed further with your threats do your due diligence.
 
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SteveGrenard said:
Go hereto Bayer's Alka Selzter websites, this one and links to the side:

http://alkaseltzer.com/as/as_extra_strength.htm

Now consider the fact that there are people, maybe millions of them, have no way of knowing, without web access. Is there anything on these website(s) that the manufacturer of Alka Serltzer admits to with respect to precautions and advisories that should be included with the package for PC and web derived users?
Click to expand...

Note how Steve continues to spread fear, doubt and uncertainty, still without providing any evidence whatsoever.

SteveGrenard said:
It may be a one time case, unpublished, that I am referring to but as another poister
has pointed out and as the general literature on CHF, pulmonary edema and hypertension
underscores, it is not the only case. The evidence for the need for precautions is self-evident ... and is self-admitted by Alka Seltzer's maker.
Click to expand...

Note how Steve now has given up on providing any sources of this one-time case. Now, it has now become "self-evident". We are now expected to accept the validity of his claim without evidence.

SteveGrenard said:
There is a book on pharmacology by Goodman and Gilman. Why don't you study the aspirin
parts and get back to me.
Click to expand...

Note how Steve drags up some book which he - possibly, but knowing Steve, far from certain - has read. The book itself is implied to be the final word on the scare that Steve is creating.

SteveGrenard said:
I am very interested in information that says it is not necessary to use a warning label on the package or a package insert to warn buyers/users with feet on the ground who are not
availaling themselves of information on the internet or don't have access to same. Or are too
old or too sick or too uninformed to do so.
Click to expand...

Note how Steve now has shifted the onus on the manufacturers: Now, it is their responsibility to warn the public about Steve's scare: Not only has it been established that Steve is right, it is now the fault of the manufacturers if anything goes wrong.

SteveGrenard said:
This would be hysterical if it were not for the fact that every pharmacology std text and Bayer Healthcare itself admits to the issues brought up in this thread. But it is typical of some to yell pseudoscience when there is any effort to inform the populace and
hurt big pharma sales of potentially harmful products, whether Rx or OTC. Thanks for letting us know where you stand. But do yourself a favor and take some time to study the
matter before your accusation of pseudoscience turns out to be the most pseudononymous thing that has come out of this discussion.
Click to expand...

Note how Steve now claims that his scare is not pseudoscience. He plays the role of the Persecuted Whistleblower, and starts pointing fingers at those who disagree with him, placing the blame on them.
 
"Ask a doctor before use if you have...a sodium-restricted diet".


SteveGrenard said:
Thanks for finding this statement on their website. It is not on the box or the packets
and perhaps by itself is evidence that it should be.
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I'm sitting here reading that exact warning on a box of AS.

Oddly, my box of koshering salt has no such warning.
 
Rob Lister said:
"Ask a doctor before use if you have...a sodium-restricted diet".




I'm sitting here reading that exact warning on a box of AS.

Oddly, my box of koshering salt has no such warning.
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Did you check the Kosher salt website? Maybe they have a religious exemption.
My box of Alka Seltzer only has Reyes Syndrome warning. Nothing abut
sodium restriction diets.
 
SteveGrenard said:
My box of Alka Seltzer only has Reyes Syndrome warning. Nothing abut
sodium restriction diets.
Click to expand...

Well, that's easy enough for you to prove. Scan the box and post it. The box I'm looking at contains all of the warnings posted on the web site.
 
How big would the box need to be, or how fine would the print have to be, to include all of the things that the makers of AS, need to warn us about? How far down on that list never insert them into your ears?
JPK
 
I think you're busted, SG. I was just in the grocery store, so I checked out the Alka-Seltzer and it included the warning about sodium restricted diets and the amount of sodium per pill on the drug information label on the outside of the box.

Linda
 
I gave my box to my doctor for submission to the FDA. However, I will be in my store
tomorrow and will look at and buy another box.
 
I am sure his doctor put in the circular file.
Salt is not like inorganic arsensic, which is dangerous at any level. It is dangerous if you have high blood pressure, and eating too much can cause high blood pressure. It is not dangerous in normal doses.
Sodium Intake
Anyway, isn't aspirin a blood thinner? Does it (more than) offset the sodium?
 
I am now back in possession of a new box of Alka Seltzer Regular Strength. Thanks to those who are interested in my concerns for their patience. Those in possession of the same packaging I have,purchased in the U.S. can now follow along with their own boxes. My box was purchased today,March 29, 2008 in New York City, State of New York, U.S.A.

Try as I might I cannot find any reference warning the following disease/disorder categories:

High Blood Pressure or Hypertension
Chronic heart disease, heart failure, CHF
Chronic or acute Kidney Disease

This is and was my major concern, the absence of any warning to these very
common categories of sufferers.

On the other hand there are warnings for the following diseases and disorders:

Asthma
Ulcers
Bleeding Problems
Frequent stomach problems (heartburn, upset stomach or pain)

Reyes Syndrome (children) given aspirin if they have chicken pox or flu symptoms; correct me if I am wrong but other infectious viral diseases might be a concern here as well. But okay it mainly chicken pox and flu symptoms covers a lot of stuff.

Allergy to Aspirin

If you are a frequent alcohol drinker (also aspirin related)

Curiously under indications headache due to overindulgence in food and drink is one of them. I guess if you do this frequently you can’t use Alka Seltzer since it is indicated and contraindicated for this at the same time.

I concede there is a single line as a continuation from the side panel to the back panel which just says “sodium restricted diet.” Ambiguous. It does not indicate which diseases would be involved even though “the box” has no problem listing other diseases and disorders save those above (e.g.:HTN, CHF, Renal, etc). This is clearly not enough. The sodium restricted diet is a continuation of the advice “Ask a doctor.” The reality of this happening easily whenever someone feels the need to cure their painful upset stomach with Alka Seltzer is mostly slim to none. I guess what I am saying is that this is not a strong enough warning, especially given all the other named (disease/disorder) warnings that they do give.


And don’t forget this. First, thanks to the poster who ferreted out the US Govt’s maximum daily allowance for sodium as 2,400 mgs. Remember each tablet of Alka Seltzer regular strength contains 567 mgs of sodium. Under the Maximum Daily dose for Adults and Children over 12 which is in a table on the back panel it says “do not exceed 8 tablets in 24 hours.” Thus healthy and normal individuals who are 12 and over or 60 or less according Bayer can take, according to the box, 567 X 8 or 4,536 mgs of Alka Seltzer in 24 hours. If you are over 60 then that recommended maximum daily dose is halved, to 4 tablets. I am not sure what changes in people between the ages of 59 and 60.x but would be interested in knowing.


And for those who defend the dosing in AS don’t forget that the sodium in Alka Seltzer’s maximum allowance or otherwise (e.g. twice the normal recommended amount if you’re under 60 or over 12) is likely to be in addition to any dietary sources of sodium you may ingest before or after you take the drug..

And don’t forget, also, contrary to a misconception voice by another above, aspirin tends to retain sodium and impair effectiveness of a loop diuretic such as Lasix. Eight regular strength Alka Seltzer tablets also delivers 325 X 8 mgs = 2,600 mgs of aspirin in 24 hours. Ref: any std pharmacology textbook including Goodman and Gilman.

While I was shopping I checked other antacids. No other brand uses a sodium salt antacid (NaHCO3), only AS. I wonder why that is?

Everybody’s feedback including negatives and misperceptions and misconceptions is appreciated since it helps to prepare for any argument against an additional set of warnings for this drug.
 
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SteveGrenard said:
I am now back in possession of a new box of Alka Seltzer Regular Strength. Thanks to those who are interested in my concerns for their patience. Those in possession of the same packaging I have,purchased in the U.S. can now follow along with their own boxes. My box was purchased today,March 29, 2008 in New York City, State of New York, U.S.A.

Try as I might I cannot find any reference warning the following disease/disorder categories:

High Blood Pressure or Hypertension
Chronic heart disease, heart failure, CHF
Chronic or acute Kidney Disease

This is and was my major concern, the absence of any warning to these very
common categories of sufferers.
Click to expand...

Did it contain a warning about sodium restricted diets and the amount of sodium per pill?

SteveGrenard said:
On the other hand there are warnings for the following diseases and disorders:

Asthma
Ulcers
Bleeding Problems
Frequent stomach problems (heartburn, upset stomach or pain)

Reyes Syndrome (children) given aspirin if they have chicken pox or flu symptoms; correct me if I am wrong but other infectious viral diseases might be a concern here as well. But okay it mainly chicken pox and flu symptoms covers a lot of stuff.

Allergy to Aspirin

If you are a frequent alcohol drinker (also aspirin related)

Curiously under indications headache due to overindulgence in food and drink is one of them. I guess if you do this frequently you can’t use Alka Seltzer since it is indicated and contraindicated for this at the same time.

I concede there is a single line as a continuation from the side panel to the back panel which just says “sodium restricted diet.” Ambiguous. It does not indicate which diseases would be involved even though “the box” has no problem listing other diseases and disorders save those above (e.g.:HTN, CHF, Renal, etc). This is clearly not enough. The sodium restricted diet is a continuation of the advice “Ask a doctor.” The reality of this happening easily whenever someone feels the need to cure their painful upset stomach with Alka Seltzer is mostly slim to none. I guess what I am saying is that this is not a strong enough warning, especially given all the other named (disease/disorder) warnings that they do give.


And don’t forget this. First, thanks to the poster who ferreted out the US Govt’s maximum daily allowance for sodium as 2,400 mgs. Remember each tablet of Alka Seltzer regular strength contains 567 mgs of sodium. Under the Maximum Daily dose for Adults and Children over 12 which is in a table on the back panel it says “do not exceed 8 tablets in 24 hours.” Thus healthy and normal individuals who are 12 and over or 60 or less according Bayer can take, according to the box, 567 X 8 or 4,536 mgs of Alka Seltzer in 24 hours. If you are over 60 then that recommended maximum daily dose is halved, to 4 tablets. I am not sure what changes in people between the ages of 59 and 60.x but would be interested in knowing.


And for those who defend the dosing in AS don’t forget that the sodium in Alka Seltzer’s maximum allowance or otherwise (e.g. twice the normal recommended amount if you’re under 60 or over 12) is likely to be in addition to any dietary sources of sodium you may ingest before or after you take the drug..

And don’t forget, also, contrary to a misconception voice by another above, aspirin tends to retain sodium and impair effectiveness of a loop diuretic such as Lasix. Eight regular strength Alka Seltzer tablets also delivers 325 X 8 mgs = 2,600 mgs of aspirin in 24 hours. Ref: any std pharmacology textbook including Goodman and Gilman.

While I was shopping I checked other antacids. No other brand uses a sodium salt antacid (NaHCO3), only AS. I wonder why that is?

Everybody’s feedback including negatives and misperceptions and misconceptions is appreciated since it helps to prepare for any argument against an additional set of warnings for this drug.
Click to expand...

More scare tactics.
 
Some years ago ISTR Consumer Reports suggested that Alka Seltzer should only be used in the extremely unusual case that you had a headache and a stomachache at the same time.

Advice I have followed ever since and never had to worry about its contents once.
 
Just a few years ago, I had 'borderline low' blood pressure. Then, for reasons that aren't relevant (but not alcohol-related), I began taking two tablet of AS every morning, and sometimes even before bed.

My diet, unfortunately, has always been pretty high in sodium, but only now have I developed high blood pressure.

It wasn't until just recently that I even thought to check the sodium content of AS, and I was aghast.

I believe your concerns are very valid, Steve. Like so many others who have known about AS for years and just assumed it was safe, I may now be paying the price, in part, because of the irresponsibility of the makers of this product in not making clear its dangers.
 
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