“Alex was doing what he loved to do”

[Reformed Offlian]

And he died doing it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/slate....-alex-harvill-dies-record-motorcycle-jump.amp

This the way you wanna go, dying while doing something physically daredevilish that you just love to do when you might have experienced the same virtually with a video game and not ended up with broken bones?

“Yeah, old Fred, he just loved teasing the alligators in the swamp, but…”

“That wing suit was his life’s passion, I can sure say that”

“He always helped people in need and that’s what he was doing, changing that tire for that old man when that drunk driver came and….”

Or, some other way?

What if he hadn't died, but instead been permanently maimed/disfigured/a vegetable?

Would people be saying: "At least he crippled himself doing what he loved?" Or: At least he destroyed his face so that even his wife and kids can't bear to look at him doing what he loved?" Or: "At least he entered a permanent vegetative state doing what he loved?"

 

[deaman]

I sometimes read your posts.

Oooh, serious Shlap down!

Well played, Sir.

Right on the berm.

 

[jeremyp]

His life wouldn't have been worth living if he hadn't been doing what he wanted. In the end, he didn't beat the odds, but 28 great years are better than a 100 average ones.

Because seeing your kids grow up and start their own families is not worth living for?

 

[jeremyp]

When Christa McAuliffe died, I don't recall anyone saying she was irresponsible for risking her life and depriving her kids of a parent.

I think the difference most people who criticized the stunt man but not the astronaut would point to would be that somehow one was doing something important, and the other was not, but is that really true? Maybe the other people who died in space were doing something important, but Christa? Not really. Publicity stunt. I'm a huge fan of the space program, and Christa McAuliffe is one of my personal heroes, but it's because she took a chance. She didn't play it safe. She worked hard, and achieved greatness.....but sometimes when you take a chance, you lose.

So, motorcycle jumping isn't exactly the same as going into space, but I can't shake the feeling that people who would applaud Christa but condemn Alex are being just a little snobbish. He found his way to make his mark in the world. Unfortunately, that mark ended up being a blood stain.

I think Christa McAuliffe was misled about how dangerous what she was about to do was. I think she bought into the myth of NASA's safety first culture. I think if she had been aware of the failures of management including the conference call the day before in which the engineers were browbeaten into allowing the launch, she would not have stepped on to the Space Shuttle that day. I don't think any of the professional astronauts would either.

 

[jeremyp]

Some said the same thing about Timothy Treadwell, who was eaten by a Grizzly.

Well, he loved spending time with the bears, and he was with one to the last minute. So, I guess they were right.

Probably for several hours after the last minute too.

 

[Roboramma]

You are correct. I am not saying that. The thread is discussing a particular person. I think this particular person’s family obligations superseded his desire to engage in high risk behaviour. I think he was stupid not to recognize that.

How high a level of risk do you think would be acceptable? Let's say his yearly chance of death due to some particular behavior was increased by 1 part in 10,000,000 would that behavior be ruled out by his obligations?
How about 1/1,000,000? 1/100,000?

 

[Steve]

Some said the same thing about Timothy Treadwell, who was eaten by a Grizzly.

Well, he loved spending time with the bears, and he was with one to the last minute. So, I guess they were right.

Probably for several hours after the last minute too.

Some parts of him became one with the bear and lived on. Other parts became bear ****.

 

[BobTheCoward]

There are a lot of people who enjoy dangerous and potentially fatal activities without any money or publicity involved at all. I really don’t give a damn if people kill themselves this way, except when they leave behind loved ones, particularly children.to suffer in their wake. In that regard it is the ultimate expression of irresponsibility and immaturity.

But not stupid. People can make informed decisions that lead to different conclusions than you. You might disagree with their ethics, but that isn't stupidity.

 

[qayak]

Guess it depends upon the circumstances.

Did she contract the cancer through any personal irresponsible behavior or by the luck of the draw?

How does that make it less tragic for the kids left behind?

 

[qayak]

How high a level of risk do you think would be acceptable? Let's say his yearly chance of death due to some particular behavior was increased by 1 part in 10,000,000 would that behavior be ruled out by his obligations?
How about 1/1,000,000? 1/100,000?

We could use the flu death rate to decide, it's 1.8/100,000. Of course that puts driving into the "you are an idiot and deserve to die" category.

 

[Steve]

How does that make it less tragic for the kids left behind?

Yeah, I guess you are right. Your logic is persuasive. Parents should just ignore the responsibility for their kids and just go off and engage in any dangerous and irresponsible behavior that makes them feel good. Their own desires are the priority after all. If they manage to kill themselves the kids will just have to suck it up and get over it.

 

[qayak]

I think Christa McAuliffe was misled about how dangerous what she was about to do was. I think she bought into the myth of NASA's safety first culture. I think if she had been aware of the failures of management including the conference call the day before in which the engineers were browbeaten into allowing the launch, she would not have stepped on to the Space Shuttle that day. I don't think any of the professional astronauts would either.

And if Alex had known he was going to hit the berm he wouldn't have gotten on the bike.

 

[Myriad]

I think anyone claiming an equivalence (you are not really, are you? ) would need to provide statistics comparing commuter deaths (say, per mile driven) to professional daredevil deaths (say, per jump). Or something other that is an equivalence. I suspect driving would prove to be the safer activity.

Actually, I do not know the cause of this guys death, but if he hit with enough force to throw his helmet off as described I suspect his helmet staying on would not have saved him.

The helmet might not have made any difference at all in this case. A medical examiner has determined that he died of blunt force trauma to the torso.

What appears to have happened was, his trajectory was simply too low, and short of the dirt landing ramp. Instead of landing on the nearly flat top of the ramp he slammed into the loose dirt slope a meter or two below the landing zone's leading edge. His bike was pitched up about 30 degrees and the slope was just about the same angle. His trajectory was about 15 degrees downward, so the bike hit flat on both wheels at about a 45 degree relative angle.

 

[qayak]

Yeah, I guess you are right. Your logic is persuasive. Parents should just ignore the responsibility for their kids and just go off and engage in any dangerous and irresponsible behavior that makes them feel good. Their own desires are the priority after all. If they manage to kill themselves the kids will just have to suck it up and get over it.

First, what's the level of acceptable risk for parents in your eyes? A SAR Tech? Race car driver? Pickle jar opener?

Second, everyone left behind is responsible for dealing with the issues of a loved one's death, or any other trauma for that matter. It isn't their fault it happened but it is their trauma to deal with. We call it life.

 

[Monza]

I don't see the satisfaction of dying doing what you love. It kind of means that at the last moment, your love of the activity is suddenly vanquished. Better off to die doing what you hate, then at least there is some justification for why you hated it. At my eulogy my wife can say, "Monza always hated doing the laundry. I guess I shouldn't have forced him. He was right all along."

 

[figarot]

I've seen riders on dirt bikes jump over obstacles 20 feet high.

Always felt it'd be more impressive if they could do the same on a horse.

 

[plague311]

I've seen riders on dirt bikes jump over obstacles 20 feet high.

Always felt it'd be more impressive if they could do the same on a horse.

Wouldn't that be more impressive for the horse?

I think the last daredevilish type thing I watched was Travis Pastrana jumping Caesar's Palace to honor Evel. I have no idea how many years ago that was and that wasn't all that death defying since it had been done before. It's ironic that people watch these events just to see if what happened here will happen, and it happened when no one was watching.

 

[figarot]

Wouldn't that be more impressive for the horse?

It would be most impressive for the horse, and bag the rider more impressive bragging rights all round than his dirt bike riding contemporaries.

 

[Steve]

First, what's the level of acceptable risk for parents in your eyes? A SAR Tech? Race car driver? Pickle jar opener?

Second, everyone left behind is responsible for dealing with the issues of a loved one's death, or any other trauma for that matter. It isn't their fault it happened but it is their trauma to deal with. We call it life.

Your perspective seems to be slipping. Dude was a daredevil. Remember. The whole purpose of his occupation was doing dangerous things that most sane people would not do. That is the reason people paid to watch him. It was thrilling to others because it was dangerous. He went out of his way to engage in an activity that put his life in danger.

An acceptable level of risk for parents is a level that gives them the best opportunity to stick around at least until their children are young adults. This does not preclude every day activities such as driving where the main risk/danger to a reasonably cautious driver is an outside agent (other driver more reckless than themselves). Every day events such as commuter driving are not considered to be thrilling and dangerous enough for people to go out of their way do watch others engage in the activity. Don’t know what an SAR Tech is, and it likely does not matter. It would not include race car driving. It would include pickle jar opening. It would not include jumping a motorcycle over long distances.

 

[Steve]

I don't see the satisfaction of dying doing what you love. It kind of means that at the last moment, your love of the activity is suddenly vanquished. Better off to die doing what you hate, then at least there is some justification for why you hated it. At my eulogy my wife can say, "Monza always hated doing the laundry. I guess I shouldn't have forced him. He was right all along."

Once you are dead any satisfaction is in the past.

You are right to hate the dangerous activity of laundry. The washer could tip over and kill you. As suggested by some here any mundane daily activity is equal to jumping distances on a motorcycle. They all involve risk that could cause your death and traumatize your family.