AK-47 Undermount? (or, let's play name that weapon)

[Bikewer]

Have a thought for us oldsters with wonky eyes. Mine have gotten to the point where it's affecting my pistol shooting, a consideration in my profession.

If I painfully tilt my head up to look through my bifocals, I can see my sights clearly. If I look through the upper "long vision" section, I can see the target...

In combat shooting, no big deal. One is only minimally aware of the sights at any rate. But for any sort of precision shooting, it's a literal pain.

 

[sackett]

AK, how I luv ya, how I luv ya, my dear old AK

Hey, WildCat!

Well of course, if you were laying back 500 m or so, you'd want a proper iron for helping the imam collect on that consignment of 144 virgins. In recent years I've often suffered from a kind of stigma in my right palm: the ghost sensation of a Springfield bolt handle.

But I think that Phrost will be able to do a little better than 12" at 100 yd, even w/ cheap ammo, and that lovely scope will make it easier. I'm all for scopes for infantry in open country -- as is the U.S. Army, of course.

I think you're just like me: a tiny tad jealous of Phrost's new plaything.

 

[sackett]

Have a thought for us oldsters with wonky eyes. Mine have gotten to the point where it's affecting my pistol shooting, a consideration in my profession.

If I painfully tilt my head up to look through my bifocals, I can see my sights clearly. If I look through the upper "long vision" section, I can see the target...

In combat shooting, no big deal. One is only minimally aware of the sights at any rate. But for any sort of precision shooting, it's a literal pain.

That is a goddamn shame. Have you discussed trifocals with your eye doctor? I like the idea of straight-shooting police, and I hope you come up with a solution.

Here we see why the police carbine idea won't go away. That's right, I'm talkin' scope-sighted shoulder arms -- they're not just for sieges anymore.

 

[Dan Beaird]

...Here we see why the police carbine idea won't go away. That's right, I'm talkin' scope-sighted shoulder arms -- they're not just for sieges anymore.

This is a tendency I'm actually not happy to see. There's a huge loss of situational awareness that happens whenever you squint down that scope. This really isn't something you want to encourage your average CQB operator to do. Sure, if you're a sniper get all the scope you can carry, if you're assigned to a support team then maybe it will make you that much more effective at extreme ranges. But for the guy who's engaging targets at short range iron sights are best. If you've ever fired the MP-5 you've seen the wonderful iron diopter sights that H&K makes. At 50 yards I can put a three round burst into the target as quick as it takes to think about it. With proper technique you can then engage other targets without reforming a sight picture or losing peripheral vision.

I think we have to blame those Austrians at Steyr for starting this trend with the AUG. Assault rifles are built to produce volume of fire, not highly accurate fire. I'd rather fire 10 rounds that makes the enemy take cover and hide while I have time to leisurely think about nasty things to do to him than spend time aiming that he could spend aiming at me.

 

[sackett]

This is a tendency I'm actually not happy to see. There's a huge loss of situational awareness that happens whenever you squint down that scope. This really isn't something you want to encourage your average CQB operator to do. Sure, if you're a sniper get all the scope you can carry, if you're assigned to a support team then maybe it will make you that much more effective at extreme ranges. But for the guy who's engaging targets at short range iron sights are best. If you've ever fired the MP-5 you've seen the wonderful iron diopter sights that H&K makes. At 50 yards I can put a three round burst into the target as quick as it takes to think about it. With proper technique you can then engage other targets without reforming a sight picture or losing peripheral vision.

I think we have to blame those Austrians at Steyr for starting this trend with the AUG. Assault rifles are built to produce volume of fire, not highly accurate fire. I'd rather fire 10 rounds that makes the enemy take cover and hide while I have time to leisurely think about nasty things to do to him than spend time aiming that he could spend aiming at me.

Reading you numbah one, DeeBee. But: Remember that I favor scopes for infantry in open country, more than in a CQB environment. (Open means engagement possible at 100 meters and farther.) I don’t advocate “all the scope you can carry” for everybody.

Remember the poor old EM-2? It started life (and ended it) with a 1-power scope, IOW a non-magnifying optical sight. That’s an improvement over iron sights, but not a distraction from the peripheral scene. (BTW, 50 yds is a hairy range. Will you really be bothering w/ sights at a time like that?) Further, I think that a modest 2.5X scope, if a man is taught to use it w/ his other eye open – a trick I never learned very well, I admit – will improve accuracy w/out limiting perception of the overall scene. And if you’re laying back even 300 meters, you can still glass the objective very well w/ 2.5X.

However, when I talk about pistol-caliber carbines, I’m thinking police shooting, not military. Accuracy is everything in a police shootout, and the safety of non-combatants is horrifically important.

Returning, as I always do, to the pinup boy in the OP: I don’t want him taking cover. I want him to stop a high-power rifle bullet, and I want to make that easy for both of us, hence my dreamy longing for a scope.

 

[Bikewer]

There is a tendency towards widespread training in what they generally call "patrol rifle" tactics.

This as a result of the LA bank-robbery shooting, where the two body-armored robbers held off large numbers of pistol-armed police.

The idea is to get everyone trained in whatever weapon the department adopts, and to have a least a couple "out there" per squad.

In our campus setting, we've been pushing for this for many years, as the Texas tower occurred a long time ago... (we have a couple of lovely crenelated towers) A lunatic sniper (or terrorist) could cause a lot of damage before the local county SWAT boys arrived.
I figured we'd go for something familiar, like an M-16, but last I talked to the armorer they were looking at a rather exotic "bullpup" design with optical-dot sights, similar to this: