AK-47 Undermount? (or, let's play name that weapon)

[sackett]

Superpicky gunbug stuff; are you snoring yet?

Really we should speak not of AK-74s or 47s, but of the AKM, which constitutes the bulk of Kalashnikovs in the world today. The AKM (Avtomat Kalashnikov Makarov) has a receiver built up from stampings and spacer blocks, riveted and spot-welded together. The original Kalashnikov was supposed to be built this way (in the manner of the StuG 44), but the Russians initially had problems with the manufacturing and opted for the all-milled AK-47 receiver -- a better way to gunsmith, in my opinion, and puh-lenty of 47s are still banging away all over the world.

Phrost, I assume your scope base is mounted on the side of the receiver -- surely not on that rattly sheet-metal cover? What kinda groups do you get?

Studying that imam really, really awakens my desire to shoot.

 

[Charlie Monoxide]

Luxury.

We used to dream of havin' a freezing puddle! Why when I was in the service, they used to wake us up for guard duty at 10:00, half an hour before we went to bed, stand guard duty in a block of frozen nitrogen for 28 hours a day then we'd drag ourselves the forty miles to camp with our teeth where our sergeant would cut us in two with a bread knife.

You don't know how lucky you were. When I was in the service, I would get woken a day before my watch and stand in dry ice naked for 12 hours and then given a 10 minute break to chip away and suck on a frozen MRE. Then we were allowed to sleep standing on our heads in flea infested itchy woolen underwear. We all shared a wet towel that doubled as a sleeping bag.

Charlie (props to Monty Python) Monoxide

 

[Ed]

You don't know how lucky you were. When I was in the service, I would get woken a day before my watch and stand in dry ice naked for 12 hours and then given a 10 minute break to chip away and suck on a frozen MRE. Then we were allowed to sleep standing on our heads in flea infested itchy woolen underwear. We all shared a wet towel that doubled as a sleeping bag.

Charlie (props to Monty Python) Monoxide

You guys are pussys.

Back in nam days we were killed during training.

 

[Bikewer]

The best video-game simulation of actual rifle fire I'm aware of is in WWII online.

First, only "iron" sights. No little crosshair to move around.

Second, trajectory. No laser-beam rifles. The bullet drops just like in real life. Further, you can adjust your sights for different ranges.

Third, the rifle moves according to your breathing. If you're just lying prone, it moves a little. If you've been running, it moves more. You have to time your shot to the movement.

It also simulates recoil, and you have to manually reload.

And usually, if you take a hit from a "battlefield" rifle, you're dead.

 

[rikzilla]

hehe. sure, I suppose so, when you're young.

I guess its good, especially for males, as a way of gaining maturity and discipline. Also, it really makes you appreciate the little things we usually take for granted.

Yeah, been there done that too....and I agree. I remember coming in from the field after a week, taking off my pants and leaning them against a wall. they stood up on their own and whew!! were they ever ripe!

Thankfully I as well was never in the wartime Army. The cold war was close enough for me!

-z

 

[Bikewer]

I spent 3 years in Germany back in the mid-60s, just before Viet Nam got going.
We were an "alert" infantry unit supposedly there to stop the Warsaw Pact nations from coming across the border.

As a result, we would spend as much as 6 months out of the year "in the field", training, doing manuevers, field problems, and so forth. Usually in the dead of winter....

Like the man says, not much fun. The most fun thing we did was go to to Norway and Denmark for NATO manuevers. We got to be the "agressors" in Denmark, which meant running around and shooting blanks at people until the "home guard" showed up to attack us.

 

[Phrost]

Re: Superpicky gunbug stuff; are you snoring yet?

Phrost, I assume your scope base is mounted on the side of the receiver -- surely not on that rattly sheet-metal cover? What kinda groups do you get?

Just got it, haven't fired it yet. You're right, it's mounted on the side. The scope's just for looking good though.

Back when I was in the Army I was pretty good with my M16/203. I'm looking forward to seeing the difference between the two rifles/rounds.

 

[Dan Beaird]

Re: Superpicky gunbug stuff; are you snoring yet?

Really we should speak not of AK-74s or 47s, but of the AKM, which constitutes the bulk of Kalashnikovs in the world today. The AKM (Avtomat Kalashnikov Makarov) has a receiver built up from stampings and spacer blocks, riveted and spot-welded together. The original Kalashnikov was supposed to be built this way (in the manner of the StuG 44), but the Russians initially had problems with the manufacturing and opted for the all-milled AK-47 receiver -- a better way to gunsmith, in my opinion, and puh-lenty of 47s are still banging away all over the world.

Phrost, I assume your scope base is mounted on the side of the receiver -- surely not on that rattly sheet-metal cover? What kinda groups do you get?

Studying that imam really, really awakens my desire to shoot.

Sackett the AKM is the modernized version of the AK-47. It still fires the same round 7.62 X 39mm as the 47. The modernization program began in 1959 and they were widely exported and kept in production for a while.

The weapon in the photo is definitely an AK-74. Look at the muzzle break.

 

[sackett]

Re: Re: Superpicky gunbug stuff; are you snoring yet?

Sackett the AKM is the modernized version of the AK-47. It still fires the same round 7.62 X 39mm as the 47. The modernization program began in 1959 and they were widely exported and kept in production for a while.

The weapon in the photo is definitely an AK-74. Look at the muzzle break.

Heck, AKMs are in production right now. If you're going to field a crude bullet-squirting machine, stamped and riveted is the way to go. But the all-milled AK-47 or its derivatives are also, I think, still in production. (I only buy a $400US+ copy of Jane's Small Arms every ten years or so, and I may be a little behind the curve.)

And I already called AK-74! Nyah nyah, beat ya! That muzzle break is unmistakable.

Notice the permanet rug burn on that joker's forehead? (He has to have one or he isn't considered devout. It could be makeup, of course.) A really handy aiming-mark, innit?

 

[sackett]

Re: Re: Superpicky gunbug stuff; are you snoring yet?

Just got it, haven't fired it yet. You're right, it's mounted on the side. The scope's just for looking good though.

Back when I was in the Army I was pretty good with my M16/203. I'm looking forward to seeing the difference between the two rifles/rounds.

I'm relieved that you put that beautiful scope on such an ugly weapon "just for looking good." Makes a startling fashion statement, I will say.

I hope you can get even 6" at 100 yds w/ that Kalashnikov. Mind you, I admire old Mikhail's engineering: He knew what was needed and he delivered it.

I once read a Russian's appreciation of the AK. "It's just what I would want of a comrade-in-arms: simple, uncomplicated, and reliable in every situation."

After a lifetime of trying to halve MOAs, I'm starting to agree with that retired SAS boyo, "Andy McNabb." He said, "As long as it fires ammunition, that's fine with me."

As the imam would quickly discover if I could get my way.

 

[Dan Beaird]

Re: Re: Re: Superpicky gunbug stuff; are you snoring yet?

Heck, AKMs are in production right now. If you're going to field a crude bullet-squirting machine, stamped and riveted is the way to go. But the all-milled AK-47 or its derivatives are also, I think, still in production. (I only buy a $400US+ copy of Jane's Small Arms every ten years or so, and I may be a little behind the curve.)

Heck, they still make Colt 1860 Army cap and ball revolvers. Yeah, I'm sure there are people still cranking them out, in Africa you can buy a Kalashnikov for less than $20. I wish I could justify a set of Jane's...care to send me your ten year old cast-offs?

And I already called AK-74! Nyah nyah, beat ya! That muzzle break is unmistakable.

Oh you did? That's right, look back a few posts and there it is. Sorry about that.

Notice the permanet rug burn on that joker's forehead? (He has to have one or he isn't considered devout. It could be makeup, of course.) A really handy aiming-mark, innit?

But his shirts are so white. They sure must have good laundry detergent in Afghanistan.

 

[sackett]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Superpicky gunbug stuff; are you snoring yet?

... But his shirts are so white. They sure must have good laundry detergent in Afghanistan. [/B]

He may send them to London to be laundered, the way Jawaharlal Nehru's father did.

 

[DaChew]

Re: Re: Superpicky gunbug stuff; are you snoring yet?

Just got it, haven't fired it yet. You're right, it's mounted on the side. The scope's just for looking good though.

Back when I was in the Army I was pretty good with my M16/203. I'm looking forward to seeing the difference between the two rifles/rounds.

I can't see if you have one or not in the picture but you might want to invest in a shell deflector. There is a chance the empties will go careening off the underside of your scope when they're ejected.

If you're using eastern block or chinese surplus ammo take a wet rag with you to the range. That stuff leaves your face absolutely filthy after a couple hundred rounds.

 

[sackett]

I apologize

for suggesting that the imam's holy mark would be a good target.

I wouldn't ice him for worlds. I'd blow off a leg so he'd be easy to capture. Of course, if some of his pistoleros ran up to try to finish him, I'd tumble -them- right enough.

I get sorta uncool when contemplating fascists. Over.

 

[hodgy]

hehe. sure, I suppose so, when you're young.

I guess its good, especially for males, as a way of gaining maturity and discipline. Also, it really makes you appreciate the little things we usually take for granted.

Twenty quid a day to sweep up, polish things, fight Her Majesty's enemies, get p****d and chase women of limited moral fortitude. I'd call that a fine life for a young man. And you get a pension!

 

[sackett]

Squaddies vs. yardbirds

There's a huge difference between volunteering and being conscripted. I suspect that most and certainly the worst wartime atrocities are committed by conscripts: sullenly half-disciplined civilians who loathe the military as much as they do their enemies, and take it out on anybody unarmed.

I know that my short and sub-glorious stint in the armies of Lyndon Johnson was intensely unpleasant, not because I had to endure hardships – hell, I never got out of Basic – but because I didn’t want to be there and resented the law that compelled me. Would I have participated in terrible deeds if I’d ended up in Nam? Can’t say; no man knows for sure what war will do to him. But I doubt that it would have been an occasion for significant personal growth.

 

[hodgy]

Re: Squaddies vs. yardbirds

There's a huge difference between volunteering and being conscripted. I suspect that most and certainly the worst wartime atrocities are committed by conscripts: sullenly half-disciplined civilians who loathe the military as much as they do their enemies, and take it out on anybody unarmed.

I know that my short and sub-glorious stint in the armies of Lyndon Johnson was intensely unpleasant, not because I had to endure hardships – hell, I never got out of Basic – but because I didn’t want to be there and resented the law that compelled me. Would I have participated in terrible deeds if I’d ended up in Nam? Can’t say; no man knows for sure what war will do to him. But I doubt that it would have been an occasion for significant personal growth.

You are right - conscription is bad for the Army and civilians should not be forced to soldier except in times of grave national emergency (e.g. WW2).

 

[WildCat]

I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who was wondering this. And to find people discussing it on JREF of all places, where we've got more of our fair share of gun-control nuts floating around here.

Contrast the cave this guy was in with my living room:

Hehe, a scope on an AK-47. That's like putting a spoiler on a Hummer.

 

[sackett]

No harm in aiming through glass

Hehe, a scope on an AK-47. That's like putting a spoiler on a Hummer.

Not quite. The factory sights on an AK are pretty minimal. (Remember that Valmet put a receiver sight on the Finnish version of the AK, improving Suomi shooting by that much.) You'll always plink straighter with a scope.

I mean, imagine a pair of crosshairs superimposed on the right reverend in the picture. Makes your finger itch at least a little, now don't it?

 

[WildCat]

Re: No harm in aiming through glass

Not quite. The factory sights on an AK are pretty minimal. (Remember that Valmet put a receiver sight on the Finnish version of the AK, improving Suomi shooting by that much.) You'll always plink straighter with a scope.

I mean, imagine a pair of crosshairs superimposed on the right reverend in the picture. Makes your finger itch at least a little, now don't it?

If that was all you had, sure. But I'd rather it be a proper bolt-action sniper rifle instead of a semi-auto machine gun (which is what the AK was designed to be) that probably couldn't make a 12 inch group at 100 yds. Even an M-16 is far more accurate.