Afterlife

[joyrex]

When you die, I believe your mind will cease to exist. Only the body remains, inanimated. There will be many newborn babies.. at about the same time. You will probably have one of those new consciousnesses.

Well, it's not actually you and it has nothing to do with the you that has died.. but an equal amount of 'self' that you have had, will be given to each newborn baby. 'You' will live again and experience life.

We are already in the afterlife. Actually, it's inseparable from the life itself. As long as life exists, this will go on as an endless cycle.

For long I have pondered about whether there are souls or afterlife in another form of existence. But now that I've thought about it from this point of view which seems most probable for me, I almost feel as if I no longer fear death.

 

[Tricky]

When you die, I believe your mind will cease to exist. Only the body remains, inanimated. There will be many newborn babies.. at about the same time. You will probably have one of those new consciousnesses.

I'm confused. Who receives the consciousness, you or the newborn baby? In what way will the "recycled" consciousness resemble the old one? Will it have memories or emotions or anything resembling the previous owner? Or will it by like an erased diskette with nothing to tell about what was on it previously?

Well, it's not actually you and it has nothing to do with the you that has died.. but an equal amount of 'self' that you have had, will be given to each newborn baby. 'You' will live again and experience life.

If it has nothing to do with "you" then it is not "you" in any sense of the word. What is "self" if it contains nothing of "you"? How can you distinguish a baby with a recycled "self" from one with a brand new one? (There must be some new ones, because we are increasing our population all the time).

We are already in the afterlife. Actually, it's inseparable from the life itself. As long as life exists, this will go on as an endless cycle.

But you can tell nothing about your previous life? How is this different from having a totally new life? Time never repeats itself. Why should souls?

For long I have pondered about whether there are souls or afterlife in another form of existence. But now that I've thought about it from this point of view which seems most probable for me, I almost feel as if I no longer fear death.

It sounds to me as if you are terribly afraid of death. I mean real death, where nothing of your "self" survives. So frightened that you must comfort yourself with a totally implausible scenario in order to assure yourself that you don't "completely die". If you truly weren't afraid of death, then you wouldn't need to do this.

But if you must have something to survive you, let it be your ideas, or "memes " if you will. Some people, like Shakespeare, have ideas and words that have survived long after their deaths. In my mind, that is true immortality.

Or as
Edgar Lee Masters said:

Immortality is not a gift,
Immortality is an achievement;
And only those who strive mightily
Shall possess it.

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

If you are somehow implying that we live on through others, such as the children we raise and the people we affect throughout our lives, then I agree with you.

If you are saying that newborns are born with a part of me, then I would have to disagree.

Stick to the former philosophy. It is undeniably true.

 

[joyrex]

to Tricky

Sorry if I was a bit unclear, it's so common to me..

There are no souls, nothing from us will remain after death (only atoms of our body). Nothing gets recycled from the self / ego / I / whatever. Consciousness will not be sent nor received.

I was just contemplating on the issue that in the same manner we now are alive and have consciousness, everyone who is born will have it too. 'I' will experience life again.. in the same sense, although it's not me..

This is what I meant by "an equal amount of self".

On the contrary to your interpretation, I am quite certain that nothing of me will survive after death, death will be complete.

 

[Tricky]

If you are saying that newborns are born with a part of me, then I would have to disagree.

Well, maybe some of your DNA. Sorta.

 

[Tricky]

was a bit unclear, it's so common to me..

There are no souls, nothing from us will remain after death (only atoms of our body). Nothing gets recycled from the self / ego / I / whatever. Consciousness will not be sent nor received.

I was just contemplating on the issue that in the same manner we now are alive and have consciousness, everyone who is born will have it too. 'I' will experience life again.. in the same sense, although it's not me..

This is what I meant by "an equal amount of self".

On the contrary to your interpretation, I am quite certain that nothing of me will survive after death, death will be complete.

This seems self-contradictory. If nothing of you survives, then how can you say " 'I' will experience life again"? Doesn't that 'I' have to survive? If not, how can it experience life again? It is possible that a few of your molecules will eventually be incorporated into future humans. Maybe several or many future humans, but I don't see how you could possibly call those molecules 'you'.

It sounds a bit like "the memory of water" that homeopaths claim.

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

I think what joyrex is getting at (feel free to correct me if I'm off here, joy) is that there will always be some entity being born to replace you which will grow to consider itself "I." Not that that "I" and your "I" have anything whatsoever to do with each other, just that there will be another "I." (until sentient life ceases for whatever reason) I have a friend who thinks along these same lines. I don't really see it as anything more than a rather odd way of stating "Life goes on." But if it helps, it helps, I guess.

 

[Iacchus]

When you die, I believe your mind will cease to exist. Only the body remains, inanimated. There will be many newborn babies.. at about the same time. You will probably have one of those new consciousnesses.

Well, it's not actually you and it has nothing to do with the you that has died.. but an equal amount of 'self' that you have had, will be given to each newborn baby. 'You' will live again and experience life.

We are already in the afterlife. Actually, it's inseparable from the life itself. As long as life exists, this will go on as an endless cycle.

For long I have pondered about whether there are souls or afterlife in another form of existence. But now that I've thought about it from this point of view which seems most probable for me, I almost feel as if I no longer fear death.

What about the nature of cause and effect which we understand so well within our psyche? Does this sensation just magically disappear when we die? Or, is it possible that it continues on through the "Karma" we experience in the afterlife?

Also, do radio waves exist outside of a radio? Then perhaps this is a good indication that we may not be alone.

 

[Tricky]

Re: Re: Afterlife

What about the nature of cause and effect which we understand so well within our psyche? Does this sensation just magically disappear when we die? Or, is it possible that it continues on through the "Karma" we experience in the afterlife?

Actually, the "magic" would be if they continued. Heart stops. Respiration stops. Metabolism stops, but psyche "magically" continues? You can believe in magic if you like, but don't speak of it as if magic was real.

To answer the question in your sig line.

So when the body dies, and consciousness departs, where do "we" go?

We don't go anywhere. We stop.

Also, do radio waves exist outside of a radio? Then perhaps this is a good indication that we may not be alone.

Again with the radio analogy? Believe me, this was discussed long before you got to these boards, and you have added nothing new. It is a false analogy used by "believers" everywhere, and it doesn't work for you any better than it does for them. Radio waves can be shown to exist. Souls cannot. It is that simple.

 

[El Greco]

Re: Re: Re: Afterlife

Again with the radio analogy?

No, now he has reversed the argument. He says that since radio waves exist without radios, then this means "we are not alone".

 

[joyrex]

I think what joyrex is getting at (feel free to correct me if I'm off here, joy) is that there will always be some entity being born to replace you which will grow to consider itself "I." Not that that "I" and your "I" have anything whatsoever to do with each other, just that there will be another "I." (until sentient life ceases for whatever reason) I have a friend who thinks along these same lines. I don't really see it as anything more than a rather odd way of stating "Life goes on." But if it helps, it helps, I guess.

Yes that it pretty much it.

Essentially in a nutshell:

I am.
After I die, there will be other beings born who can also say,
"I am" - or express any other form of self-awareness, if they don't have language.

That is the connection and the continuum.

 

[joyrex]

This seems self-contradictory. If nothing of you survives, then how can you say " 'I' will experience life again"? Doesn't that 'I' have to survive? If not, how can it experience life again? It is possible that a few of your molecules will eventually be incorporated into future humans. Maybe several or many future humans, but I don't see how you could possibly call those molecules 'you'.

Maybe I approached this whole thing from a wrong direction, I had difficulties to express my point..

This 'I' is the experience of "I am".

My molecules are beside the point.

 

[El Greco]

I am.
After I die, there will be other beings born who can also say,
"I am" - or express any other form of self-awareness, if they don't have language.

Probably, unless a nuclear war or a comet destroys all life on Earth, or we have a really hard ice age etc...

 

[Tricky]

Maybe I approached this whole thing from a wrong direction, I had difficulties to express my point..

This 'I' is the experience of "I am".

My molecules are beside the point.

Oh. Well I apologize for my confusion.

Yes, I too wish to see more humans experience the "I am" sensation. To that end, I try to do my best to make sure we take care of the only known habitat for humans. But we have only been on this earth for a short while, geologically speaking, and we aren't doing such a good job of maintaining our environment. Unless things change, I fear there won't be too many more millenia with humans getting that "I am" rush. I hope I am wrong.

 

[joyrex]

And from an opposite point of view..

We are the afterlife of those who have gone before us.

 

[Tricky]

And from an opposite point of view..

We are the afterlife of those who have gone before us.

Or as those great musician/philosophers, Urian Heep said;

Today is only yesterday's tomorrow.

(Also today is the first day of the rest of your life, so have a nice day. )

 

[Iacchus]

Actually, the "magic" would be if they continued. Heart stops. Respiration stops. Metabolism stops, but psyche "magically" continues? You can believe in magic if you like, but don't speak of it as if magic was real.

As if the miracle of life wasn't magical enough?

To answer the question in your sig line.

We don't go anywhere. We stop.

Says you?

Again with the radio analogy? Believe me, this was discussed long before you got to these boards, and you have added nothing new. It is a false analogy used by "believers" everywhere, and it doesn't work for you any better than it does for them. Radio waves can be shown to exist. Souls cannot. It is that simple.

Only because it hasn't been demonstrated scientifically, yet? Everything vibrates and sends out signals, even brains. And just because we haven't been able to ascertain a certain frequency or, whatever it is it entails, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


Besides, as I mentioned in the other thread, "we" are the radios, therefore there must a means by which to "tune in" (and exmanine it) ... as many have already claimed to have done.

 

[Iacchus]

No, now he has reversed the argument. He says that since radio waves exist without radios, then this means "we are not alone".

It's very clear to me that spirits do exist.

 

[Tricky]

As if the miracle of life wasn't magical enough?

Nope. Not magical at all. We are learning more about how it works every day, and none of it is magic.

Says you?

Says every single piece of evidence ever collected.

Only because it hasn't been demonstrated scientifically, yet? Everything vibrates and sends out signals, even brains. And just because we haven't been able to ascertain a certain frequency or, whatever it is it entails, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Your criteria for accepting unproven phenomena is truly lax. Do you accept everything that you are not personally able to prove wrong as being true? It would seem so, based on your posts here. Have you even got a clue what critical thinking is?

Besides, as I mentioned in the other thread, "we" are the radios, therefore there must a means by which to "tune in" (and exmanine it) ... as many have already claimed to have done.

Yes, you have mentioned it numerous times, and in spite of the fact that it has been logically demolished, you continue to make the same claim. But it doesn't matter what people claim to have done. People claim all sorts of bizarre things, like being abducted by extraterrestrials. The only thing that matters is what you can give evidence for, and you have given none to support your psychoceramic contentions.

 

[Johnny Pneumatic]

It's very clear to me that spirits do exist.-Iaccus






prove it, win a million$.