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Afterlife

Your self has witnessed all those events in your life that you remember [and more].

Doesn't this make sense?
 
joyrex said:
... But I suppose this boils down to mere opinion and way of seeing things...
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Joyrex,
It boils not to anything that is mere. How we see Self has everything to do with who we are. Sure it's our personal Subjective Reality. But we discover much in the articulation of it.

This reminds me in a small way of a spoof I wrote in Socratic dialogue style in which I postulated a substance called Lifebuds. It isn't the story that is so much important - it's that in the exploration I discovered alot of crackpot notions of the Self and just as many beautiful notions. None of which are provable.

But in spoof and real life - if it's good - you wanna see the ending. Only then can you make a fair assessment.

So hold a positive hypothesis dear. We both feel that there is no need to experience objective reality as anything bleak. It is rich, wonderful, and for now, unknowable in the essence of the 'I' in it. Surely the ever changing 'I am' of consciousness continues it's unfoldment.

Continue too, in your rich Transformation as you will and as the king of your own joy.
 
Yes. It is unprovable as much as it is inevitable.

Primary purpose of life - to be.

Just a few thoughts that sprang out of somewhere. ;)
 
What's the deal with fear? Why does it hang so heavy here in this forum? Why does everybody else see fear when I don't?

Fear has nothing to do with objective reality. If someone has a take on objective reality that is different from yours why do you have to label it as derived from fear?

Is it like the preacher who is always preaching about the sin of lustfulness while staring at the breasts of the chick in the front row? You have to wonder about anyone when they're always seeing things in other people.

Maybe all people our afraid of death. Maybe only some people are afraid of death. What does that have to do with what a person believes? Some Christians don't fear death, some Christians do fear death. Some atheists don't fear death, some atheists do fear death. Who cares? Obviously a lot of people here. So my question is what is the big deal?

-Elliot
 
elliotfc said:
What's the deal with fear?... If someone has a take on objective reality that is different from yours why do you have to label it as derived from fear?...
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Elliot,
To me the answer is not so much death as Hell. Hell is a tangible reality to the Christian. Jesus spent 3 days there after he died. Dante has made this place, well... hellish. It becomes synonymous with the apocalyptic Lake of Fire which is the second death, and everlasting torment.

Every child is made to conjure an image of this horrific place as their own penalty for being bad. Later in life, Christians assign others to that hellhole just for not believing the same ugly fantasy they have... as told here in a recent thread.

Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred in The most hideous thing about religion
...The owner rang up my bill, I handed him a ten, he gave me one dollar too much as change.
I pointed this out to him and gave him back the dollar. He asked me was I a Christian, I said no.
He observed that it was a pity that so decent a man was going to Hell...
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As a matter of fact most proselytizers don't get very far into their message of the 'Good News' of Jesus without explaining the bad news for those who reject their truth. They are purveyors of fear. They possess an infected mind and they spread the disease under the guise of medicine.

It is true that once a Christian accepts Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior that he can undergo a change. The fear of damnation that brought him to the Lord is pushed low and raised up is Hope and the Love of Jesus, the claim on an everlasting reward.

But Hell lurks in the subconscious when bad things happen or doubt creeps in. The Prince of Darkness is called on as an explanation. Sin is raised up as the strings in you that the Devil plucks and his grasping clutches are pulling you deeper into his abyss. This is very real to you and the road to perdition is wide.

The only escape is to hold yourself in thrall to your preacher's ideal. If you follow your own heart you might just as well kill yourself now because Hell has your room readied. Jesus, Yes Jesus. But the right Jesus; Catholic, Mormon, Baptist, they have all condemned each other to the pit at times in history even to this very day.

Likewise Islam... not that far from Christianity in it's hold on it's followers, so controls the subjective reality of the believers that it will employ terrorism to win recruits. Some of the biggest days around the world for conversion to Islam were the days following the fall of the twin towers. The Taliban ruled with an overt fear based system but Christianity has its own covert oppression.

It preaches sweetness and light but the threat of eternal damnation is one sexual thought or one missed church service away. Don't think for a moment that it is not a part of your reality. Just try rejecting Jesus for a week and see if you are not haunted by the laughing demons of hell.

It permeates all of your thought. Fear... the loss of your eternal soul... eternal damnation... eternity in the fires of hell.

I wish I was a better writer so I could show you what you will not see.

Fear is a central aspect of the faith. Excommunication has been a threat wielded by some churches. Shunning by others. Because the authorities know you fear being cast out and what it means for your eternal soul.

Again, the systems are fear based. Luckily, they offer the only medicine that works against that sick fear. Their idea of Salvation.



Except for all that... What's the deal with fear?...Not a whole lot really. But to some people it's a big deal. And Elliot, this wasn't directed at you personally. It is about the large body of Christians who believe that by threatening Hell on others they are doing the Lord's work and in so doing are assuaging their own fear.
 
Atlas said:


Elliot,
To me the answer is not so much death as Hell. Hell is a tangible reality to the Christian. Jesus spent 3 days there after he died. Dante has made this place, well... hellish. It becomes synonymous with the apocalyptic Lake of Fire which is the second death, and everlasting torment.

Every child is made to conjure an image of this horrific place as their own penalty for being bad. Later in life, Christians assign others to that hellhole just for not believing the same ugly fantasy they have... as told here in a recent thread.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is only right that hell (the absence of God) be made, by analogy, to be a horrible place.

For example, drunk driving showcases cars, videos, et al. Is that to instill fear? Or is that just showing information?

I'm not saying that the mature person should focus on Hell. But we educate by telling people how bad things are.

-Elliot
 
elliotfc said:


Yes, it is only right that hell (the absence of God) be made, by analogy, to be a horrible place.

I'm not saying that the mature person should focus on Hell. But we educate by telling people how bad things are.

-Elliot
Click to expand...
A nice Christian would say that I'm getting a reward in heaven but you will stay where you are planted in the ground. Why even have hell? Revelation talks like people rise up from their graves on the last day, are judged, and follow Satan into the Lake of fire. The fire may be eternal but scripture doesn't say that the soul burns eternally, does it? It's Dante's world. I don't think Jesus ever said a word about his 3 days in Hell. Why not? The Gospels don't put Him there either, do they? It's been a long time since I read them. Isn't it just a phrase from the Creed?

I've always imagined they sent Jesus to Hell for 3 days because they couldn't imagine a divine being just plain dead for any length of time. And they know from his own words that he hadn't yet ascended. (Even though he told the good thief he was going to Paradise. Was he just jerking the guy's chain?) Nobody dwelt on how and why Jesus went to Hell in my church. Did they in yours?

What's your take on that? Educate me by telling me how bad things are?
 
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