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Afghanistan

Arcade22 said:
Actually the US was invited by Afghans to remove the tyrannical Taliban from power. It's telling that the vast majority of Afghan people did not rise up against the "invaders" but rather embraced them.
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Not sure there was any 'invite' and who has the authority to invite another country to invade? Was a plebiscite held?

Pretty sure this argument then holds up even more strongly for the Talib, certainly no evidence the people rose up against them, it appears not even the Afghan army did.
 
dudalb said:
The Taliban had changed:yeah Right

.https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/04/asia/afghanistan-saturday-intl/index.html
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Interesting they were allowed to demonstrate, and not arrested for doing so. A taliban spokesman listened to them and said their demands would be taken to the leadership. The violence happened when the demonstrators insisted on marching to the presidential palace, non lethal violence was used to stop them.

In many western countries even in normal situations demonstrators might be prevented from marching on the presidential palace, let alone in a state of emergency. Especially when the opponents of the Taliban are known to use suicide bombers.

I wonder what would happen if a group of muslim women suddenly marched on the Whitehouse or congress? How close would they be allowed to get?
 
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I am not an apologist for the Talib, I disagree with most of their beliefs what I am opposed to the the racist views being expressed here. It is racist to interpret any activities of the Talib as bad when the same actions in e.g. Paris or Washington would not be evil.

A spontaneous demonstration of Burka clad women was allowed to happen and had an official response to their demands, at a time of high risk from terrorism and suicide bombing they were prevented from approaching the presidential palace with non-violent force. The same would have happened a year ago when the US was in charge, it would happen in Paris or Washington.

It is simple prejudice (literally) to assume that if the press would not have been there they would all have been murdered.

It is also noticeable that the press were there and reported on the events! Not something that might be allowed in some countries e.g. China.

We appear to have freedom of association, speech, demonstration, and press all demonstrated here. Like all freedoms there were limits.
 
Planigale said:
We appear to have freedom of association, speech, demonstration, and press all demonstrated here. Like all freedoms there were limits.
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Oh please. This little demonstration is nothing compared with the Talibans long campaign of targeted murders and threatening people into silence. The fact that Afghan journalists, officials and others have left the country in droves is because they have been threatened by the Taliban.

Sooner rather than later people like this will be whipped, beaten and shot nor will there be any Afghan media to report it.
 
Planigale said:
Not sure there was any 'invite' and who has the authority to invite another country to invade? Was a plebiscite held?
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Plebiscite? Don't be cute. The Taliban did not and still does not allow people any say in how Afghanistan was run and those who opposed them, as distasteful many of them were, still had more legitimacy than the Taliban can ever have.

Pretty sure this argument then holds up even more strongly for the Talib, certainly no evidence the people rose up against them, it appears not even the Afghan army did.
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I guess you haven't been paying attention to the media reports of the most intense fighting in Afghanistan this year? The fact that they didn't all fight to the death doesn't mean that they didn't resist.
 
Arcade22 said:
Oh please. This little demonstration is nothing compared with the Talibans long campaign of targeted murders and threatening people into silence. The fact that Afghan journalists, officials and others have left the country in droves is because they have been threatened by the Taliban.

Sooner rather than later people like this will be whipped, beaten and shot nor will there be any Afghan media to report it.
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To avoid this kind of catastrophic violence, the best thing to do is to give the Taliban a few things that they like, for example money, or accepting a government position when it is offered:
Taliban Offered Ahmad Massoud Post In Afghanistan Govt, Resistance Chief Refused: Report
As the fierce battle between the Northern Alliance resistance and Taliban continues to ravage Afghanistan, the negotiation between both parties have failed
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(https://www.republicworld.com/world...tan-govt-resistance-chief-refused-report.html).

Massoud said "No", but he could have sent a delegate to represent him, with a demand of continued autonomy for the Panjshir Valley.

See also:
A US lawmaker has accused the Taliban of stopping Afghans and Americans from leaving Afghanistan via Mazar-i-Sharif International Airport.
...
The Texas representative added: "We know the reason why is because the Taliban want something in exchange."
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Michel H said:
To avoid this kind of catastrophic violence, the best thing to do is to give the Taliban a few things that they like, for example money, or accepting a government position when it is offered:
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Because giving in to violent threats never has any negative consequences. :rolleyes:
 
trustbutverify said:
Question- were you able to keep a straight face while typing this? Be honest.
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Yes. You can point out errors made, you can try and point out peoples racist beliefs. What some posters do not seem to understand is the difference between the Taliban, a political / religious group, and the many local militia groups who support them. It is easy to say something bad happens lets blame the Taliban. Yet if a US soldier or policeman commits crime no one says the government is evil. There are mass shootings in the US, church burned down, but people do not rush to say that is the Us government to blame.

The Taliban should get the blame for the policies they do have. Yes, they will let women attend university but it is not necessary for them to be segregated and wear the Niqab, I think that should be argued against. Their policy on abortion is to restrictive (although I think a bit more liberal than Texas).

I do not know what the Taliban will do in future, nor does anyone else. But condemning for acts they have not yet done is unreasonable.
 
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Ziggurat said:
Because giving in to violent threats never has any negative consequences. :rolleyes:
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You can also be tough and deal with the Taliban like the Allies dealt with Nazi Germany during WWII, but I think this lead to some negative consequences for some groups of people.

Note: I forgot a link in post #228:
A US lawmaker has accused the Taliban of stopping Afghans and Americans from leaving Afghanistan via Mazar-i-Sharif International Airport.
...
The Texas representative added: "We know the reason why is because the Taliban want something in exchange."
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(https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58455959).
 
In an unfortunate incident, Taliban accidentally behead man while issuing a traffic ticket:

Sohail Pardis was driving from his home in Afghanistan's capital Kabul to nearby Khost province to pick up his sister for the upcoming Eid holiday celebrations to mark the end of Ramadan.

It was supposed to be a happy occasion enjoyed with family. But during the five-hour trip on May 12, as Pardis, 32, drove through a stretch of desert, his vehicle was blocked at a checkpoint by Taliban militants.
Just days before, Pardis had confided to his friend that he was receiving death threats from the Taliban, who had discovered he had worked as a translator for the United States Army for 16 months during the 20-year-long conflict.
"They were telling him you are a spy for the Americans, you are the eyes of the Americans and you are infidel, and we will kill you and your family," his friend and co-worker Abdulhaq Ayoubi told CNN.
As he approached the checkpoint, Pardis put his foot on the accelerator to speed through. He was not seen alive again.
Villagers who witnessed the incident told observers the Taliban shot his car before it swerved and stopped. They then dragged Pardis out of the vehicle and beheaded him.
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We just had a whole year or so of violent protests based on the premise that police abuses arise from a wholesale institution and culture of bad policing. It was very much a "the government is evil" statement.

And I do seem to remember Abu Ghraib being an indictment of the entire administration and military, top to bottom.
 
Michel H said:
To avoid this kind of catastrophic violence, the best thing to do is to give the Taliban a few things that they like, for example money, or accepting a government position when it is offered:
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The Taliban don't kill journalists that irritate them because they haven't been paid protection money.

Oh and as for free speech: The Taliban have been painting over public murals and removing or just destroying any public images (which is a lot, including just about any depiction of a woman) in Kabul.

Naturally they have been replacing them with plain text propaganda messages like: "Don't listen to the enemy's lies about the Mujahideen". The implication is that they are not to listen (or read) anything that portrays them negatively. It's not a suggestion but an order. The Taliban had already prohibited people from doing so in territories where they ruled with an iron fist and journalists certainly did not operate freely (or at all)

Of course they are not going to clamp down and immediately ban everything they disapprove of the very same day they take over. The Taliban are not idiots and they know that they are not omnipotent. Moreover it's utterly naive or outright dishonest to act like The Taliban will suddenly stop acting like repressive tyrants when they have not done so after they have taken territory before.
 
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If they do do better than they did the last time they were in charge, that's a nifty bonus. If not, I care no more than I did before we invaded, and no more than anybody here does about any of the other countries where similar behavior goes on. It wasn't a reason to invade then, and it isn't a reason to stay in Afghanistan or invade anywhere else now. So talking about it serves no more purpose than talking about the crappy behavior of any other similarly bad people in any other place & time that nobody talks about... other than if one's goal is to try to depict it as somehow Biden's fault despite the fact that we all know it isn't.
 
Taliban death liberation squads de-colonizing Afghanistan:

The Taliban murdered a pregnant policewoman in front of her family on Saturday night, according to her son. Her death, in the central Afghanistan province of Ghor, adds to mounting concerns about the repression of women under the Taliban's rule.

The victim's full name was Negar Masoomi, her sister told CNN. Her killing was also confirmed to CNN by a local journalist in Ghor, who said she worked in Ghor prison and was eight months pregnant when she died.
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Video obtained by CNN showed her son Mohammad Hanif giving his account of the murder, saying that the Taliban came inside the house where his family lives, then took himself and his brothers outside and tied them up.
"They killed our mother before our eyes. They killed her with a knife," Hanif said.
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New Taliban government is comosed of hard liners.
This should surprise nobody but the gullible.
 
Delvo said:
If they do do better than they did the last time they were in charge, that's a nifty bonus. If not, I care no more than I did before we invaded, and no more than anybody here does about any of the other countries where similar behavior goes on. It wasn't a reason to invade then, and it isn't a reason to stay in Afghanistan or invade anywhere else now. So talking about it serves no more purpose than talking about the crappy behavior of any other similarly bad people in any other place & time that nobody talks about... other than if one's goal is to try to depict it as somehow Biden's fault despite the fact that we all know it isn't.
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This is not an American politics thread. Not everything in the world has to do with your partisan politics.

Someone claimed that the fact a protest took place was evidence that there was freedom of speech and such under the Taliban, which is plainly ridiculous since they crushed two recent protests and falsely accused them of being agents of a foreign country.

Oh and the "inclusive government" the Taliban said they would have? Nowhere to be seen, as expected. They haven't even bothered to include any prominent useful idiot to give even a impression of not taking all power for themselves.

The minister of the interior is even a terrorist wanted by the US and subject to UN sanctions. None of these people have any kind of serious education, experience in running a country. Then again Afghanistan is about to get a whole lot simpler under the Taliban and that's how they prefer it.
 
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