Afghani Eject Computer Experts

[SteveGrenard]

Originally Posted by SteveGrenard
Can you show me where it says it is the god behind the 10 Commandments or not?

Larsen's authoritative on-line Wikipedia. Entry for Ten COmmandments.

To which Larsen asks:

What countries comprise of this "proposed jihad zone"?

Where does al Zawahiri define this "proposed jihad zone"?

Where is your evidence that three of the commandments clearly predate secular laws against killing, stealing and perjury?

Unless you can keep your references and questions in order, I will not play by your silly games.

 

[CFLarsen]

Originally Posted by SteveGrenard [qimg]http://www.randi.org/forumlive/images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/qimg]
Can you show me where it says it is the god behind the 10 Commandments or not?

Larsen's authoritative on-line Wikipedia. Entry for Ten COmmandments.

To which Larsen asks:



Unless you can keep your references and questions in order, I will not play by your silly games.

Drop your infantile games and answer the questions:

What countries comprise of this "proposed jihad zone"?

Where does al Zawahiri define this "proposed jihad zone"?

Where is your evidence that three of the commandments clearly predate secular laws against killing, stealing and perjury?

 

[SteveGrenard]

1. Spain to Iraq comprises.

2. Spain to Iraq is defined by al Zawahiri as the jihad zone.

3. I think you need to provide me with dated copies/references of secular laws against perjury, killing and theft/larceny in order to back up your question. I cannot answer a question for which the evidence is null which is my point.

 

[SteveGrenard]

Just because you are becoming incoherent doesn't mean we have to respond to that.

 

[CFLarsen]

1. Spain to Iraq comprises.

List the countries, Steve.

2. Spain to Iraq is defined by al Zawahiri as the jihad zone.

Where does al Zawahiri define this?

3. I think you need to provide me with dated copies/references of secular laws against perjury, killing and theft/larceny in order to back up your question. I cannot answer a question for which the evidence is null which is my point.

Sure you can: Where is your evidence that three of the commandments clearly predate secular laws against killing, stealing and perjury?

Cut the crap. Answer the questions.

 

[SteveGrenard]

Okay, I will try and help you out:

The first written copy of the ten c’s in Hebrew is dated circa 100 BCE:

100. Extant copy of the Ten Commandments is written in Hebrew.

http://www.mediahistory.umn.edu/time/bce.html

Please provide me with a copy of any laws against killing, perjury and larceny or theft prior to 100 BCE to back up your assertion. Thank you. This is the Hebrew version. An aramaic or syriac version may predate this.

 

[CFLarsen]

Okay, I will try and help you out:

The first written copy of the ten c’s in Hebrew is dated circa 100 BCE:



http://www.mediahistory.umn.edu/time/bce.html

Please provide me with a copy of any laws against killing, perjury and larceny or theft prior to 100 BCE to back up your assertion. Thank you. This is the Hebrew version. An aramaic or syriac version may predate this.

Cut the crap. Answer the questions.

What countries comprise of this "proposed jihad zone"?

Where does al Zawahiri define this "proposed jihad zone"?

Where is your evidence that three of the commandments clearly predate secular laws against killing, stealing and perjury?

 

[SteveGrenard]

On July 27th al Zawahiri gave a videotaped message outlining the proposed jihad from Spain to Iraq. Please see above. I have also provided you with a URL and brief quote of the relevant passage. The countries between Spain and Iraq, the proposed extent of the jihad, should be well known to an educated person. Since you are asking for these do I assume you are not familiar with the geopolitcal subdivisions between Spain and Iraq? These include Spain, France, Monaco, San Marino, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Lebanon, Israel, the Palestinian territories, and Iraq. Along more northern latitudes they include Luxemburg, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, and part of Scandinavia. I hope that helps.

 

[CFLarsen]

On July 27th al Zawahiri gave a videotaped message outlining the proposed jihad from Spain to Iraq. Please see above. I have also provided you with a URL and brief quote of the relevant passage. The countries between Spain and Iraq, the proposed extent of the jihad, should be well known to an educated person. Since you are asking for these do I assume you are not familiar with the geopolitcal subdivisions between Spain and Iraq? These include Spain, France, Monaco, San Marino, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Lebanon, Israel, the Palestinian territories, and Iraq. Along more northern latitudes they include Luxemburg, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, and part of Scandinavia. I hope that helps.

No, it doesn't. Where do you get this from? You need to provide evidence of your claims, Steve.

Where is your evidence that three of the commandments clearly predate secular laws against killing, stealing and perjury?

 

[SteveGrenard]

No, it doesn't. Where do you get this from? You need to provide evidence of your claims, Steve.

Done. See Posts 84 and 85 in this thread when you first re-asked for this. It is now 25 posts later and you still didn't see this. I think you had enough time.

 

[CFLarsen]

Done. See Posts 84 and 85 in this thread when you first re-asked for this. It is now 25 posts later and you still didn't see this. I think you had enough time.

What a load of manure, Steve. Nowhere does he mention those countries. Strangely enough, you don't mention the UK, where Al Qaeda also struck.

You are simply making this up as you go.

Where is your evidence that three of the commandments clearly predate secular laws against killing, stealing and perjury?

 

[thaiboxerken]

Korean (Christian) computer experts there to help the country set-up its computer needs have been asked to leave Afgghanistan on charges of attempted apostasy.

I don't blame them. I'd kick them out of my house too.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Well, I'd say that Christianity would be a slight improvement over Islam. Last time I checked, no christians in America threatened to kill someone for converting to Islam, while the same cannot be said for Islam in Afghanistan:

No, but abortion clinics aren't too safe from christians.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Thus, my comment that Christianity is better than Islam - because in some Islamic countries you'll be killed for converting.

It's only because christians have secularized a bit more than muslims. In otherwords, muslims are more religious.

 

[thaiboxerken]

All three major faiths - Christian, Jew and Muslin - embrace the ten commandments. Even if not god given these rules have formed the basis for much secular law.

You are wrong. The basis of secular law is freedom of religion, which is a direct violation of one or two of the 10 commandments.

 

[thaiboxerken]

#3. Do not take the Lord’s name in vain.

No laws there.

#4 Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.

Again, no laws there. Because many businesses give employers days off only reflects the fact that majority of people are Christians, not that the law is based on the 10 commandments.

#5 Honor your father and mother.

At least until you’re 18, this is mandatory.

No, it's not. Children can curse and insult their parents all they want without fear of breaking the law.

#6 Shalt not kill, self-explanatory.

A secular principle.

#7 Shalt not commit adultery.

There are certainly laws that regulate sexual behavior and specifically divorce laws that impose severe penalties for adultery.

Not really.

8 Thou shalt not steal, self-explanatory

Another secular law.

#9 Thou shalt not bear false witness: perjury is a crime.

Secular.

# 10 No coveting. While there may not be laws against wanting....

Coveting is simply "wanting" stealing is a different matter. Coveting is not against the law, it's an essential part of capitalism.

So by my count eight out of ten.

So you're wrong, big deal. Oh, and "In God We Trust" is not something our country was founded on. It looks like we're back down to 3 of 10, where those 3 are principles that outdate the Torah.

 

[CFLarsen]

It's only because christians have secularized a bit more than muslims. In otherwords, muslims are more religious.

Some Christians.

 

[Mycroft]

Excuse me? Just who the hell are you to tell me what matters when it comes to my upbringing? What kind of bigotted, narrow-minded statement is that?

Claiming not to have been influenced by the culture you were raised in is simply absurd.

Do you feel closer to the Vikings? That’s fine, but the Vikings themselves were Christianized, so unless you were raised by historical re-enactors who very carefully shielded you from any influence from after the tenth century, then you were influenced by Christendom too.

They base their conclusions on populations, not individuals.

Sure. Are you disavowing your membership in any populations?

Could the Judeo-Christian values about honoring your parents be influenced by earlier societies? If so, do you think it was?

Could be. Does that contradict anything I’ve said?

What a load of crock, Mycroft. You point to the law. You back up your claim.

First scatological reference, I win.

If you can't - or won't - just say so. But don't play these games of table-turning.

Again, you refuse to back up your assertions.

I want to know about all these other “non-Judeo-Christian” gods that were worshiped by my colonial ancestors. I think you’re full of nonsense, but I’ll gladly admit I’m wrong if you can describe and document this supposed pantheon you imagine.

 

[Mycroft]

No laws there.



Again, no laws there. ...<snip>

You're making a similar mistake to what Larsen made, in thinking that "founded on" means the rule will be exactly reproduced in our modern laws. Nobody is claiming that.

 

[CFLarsen]

Claiming not to have been influenced by the culture you were raised in is simply absurd.

Do you feel closer to the Vikings? That’s fine, but the Vikings themselves were Christianized, so unless you were raised by historical re-enactors who very carefully shielded you from any influence from after the tenth century, then you were influenced by Christendom too.

Moving the goalposts. Before my "Christian-centrism" "betrayed" my upbringing in a "Christian society". Now, I just have to be "influenced". However you want to measure that...

Sure. Are you disavowing your membership in any populations?

Yes, the Christian one.

Could be. Does that contradict anything I’ve said?

It shoots down your claim that we have mother's and father's day for Christian reasons.

First scatological reference, I win.

No, you lose: You can't back up your assertions.

Again, you refuse to back up your assertions.

I want to know about all these other “non-Judeo-Christian” gods that were worshiped by my colonial ancestors. I think you’re full of nonsense, but I’ll gladly admit I’m wrong if you can describe and document this supposed pantheon you imagine.

OK, I have to conclude that you refuse to back up your claims. You want to play games - eg. to see who will first use a "scatological reference". You can play those infantile games on your own.