Afghani Eject Computer Experts

[Mycroft]

Moving the goalposts. Before my "Christian-centrism" "betrayed" my upbringing in a "Christian society". Now, I just have to be "influenced". However you want to measure that...

Since those are essentially the same thing, it’s a bit silly for you to claim I’m “moving the goalposts.” My claim never was that you are a Christian, only that you were raised in and are influenced by a Christian society.

Yes, the Christian one.

Claiming not to be a Christian is very different from not having any Christian influences in your culture.

It shoots down your claim that we have mother's and father's day for Christian reasons.

Now you’re moving the goalposts. My claim is that these holidays have a foundation in the Ten Commandments, not that they were enacted for Christian reasons.

No, you lose: You can't back up your assertions.

Of the two of us, you’re the only one who has refused to back up your assertions. What is this non-Judeo-Christian pantheon you spoke of earlier?

OK, I have to conclude that you refuse to back up your claims. You want to play games - eg. to see who will first use a "scatological reference". You can play those infantile games on your own.

I was, of course, making a joke from a previous argument where you claimed that “Resorting to scatological replies is a sure sign of defeat.” If you consider that to be an “infantile game” then logically you must feel yourself to be infantile as well.

Here is a link to your previous “infantile” behavior.

http://206.225.95.123/forumlive/showthread.php?p=1717673&highlight=scatological#post1717673

 

[SteveGrenard]

You're making a similar mistake to what Larsen made, in thinking that "founded on" means the rule will be exactly reproduced in our modern laws. Nobody is claiming that.

Thaiboxerken:

There are twenty U.S. states left with laws against adultery.

Also search the subject of "Blue Laws" secular laws designed to keep the sabbath holy and prohibit working and the sale and consumption of alcohol on the Sunday sabbath.

I have already presented evidence of the above elsewhere in this thread.

Tony makes an excellent point and addition to the relevance of religious edicts and secular law when he adds:

Consider me unimpressed. You should have cited laws supporting slavery the subjegation of women or laws against the teaching of evolution, atleast those have a provable basis in religion.

I am sorry he is unimpressed but evolution teaching and the subjugation of women are not in the ten c's. Slavery is supported, not prohibited. Obeying the sabbath, prohibition of adultery, murder, perjury and larceny are. Having no other god before you is also there, hence the use of the motto in god we trust on our legal tender and in public buildings, especially courtrooms.

 

[SteveGrenard]

Mycroft:

I was, of course, making a joke from a previous argument where you claimed that “Resorting to scatological replies is a sure sign of defeat.” If you consider that to be an “infantile game” then logically you must feel yourself to be infantile as well.

Here is a link to your previous “infantile” behavior.

http://206.225.95.123/forumlive/show...#po st1717673

Additional scatological references:

Larsen. Post 107. "Cut the crap."

Larsen: Post 111. "What a load of manure."

 

[SteveGrenard]

What a load of manure, Steve. Nowhere does he mention those countries. Strangely enough, you don't mention the UK, where Al Qaeda also struck.

You are simply making this up as you go.

You think I am making up al Zawahiri's videotaped broadcasted speech calling for jihad from Spain to Iraq? If anyone is making up stuff as they "go along" its you.

I have alrfeady said al Zawahiri was not clear on what countries between
Spain and Iraq which is a geographic expanse based on longitudes and not latitudes.

Here is a relatively recent political map of Europe where you can decide what countries would bein al Zawahiri's Spain to Iraq jihad call.

http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/1_MAP/1_map_europe_2001_enlarged.htm

Thanks for mentioning Britain which is not located east of Spain so is not included in those remarks. Granted Britain is rapidly becoming The Islamic Republic of West Pakistan.

 

[SteveGrenard]

Where is your evidence that three of the commandments clearly predate secular laws against killing, stealing and perjury?

The commandments were first written in Hebrew in the year 100 B.C.E.

There were no secular government enforced laws in America until the Pilgrims Landed at Plymouth Rock, Massachusetts circa Dec 11, 1620 (A.D.) and these laws they brought with them from England. There were no U.S. laws because there was no independent U.S.until July 4th, 1776.

The 10 commandments existed 1,876 years before there were any secular laws in the United States.

 

[CFLarsen]

You think I am making up al Zawahiri's videotaped broadcasted speech calling for jihad from Spain to Iraq? If anyone is making up stuff as they "go along" its you.

I have alrfeady said al Zawahiri was not clear on what countries between
Spain and Iraq which is a geographic expanse based on longitudes and not latitudes.

So, you made up the list of countries, but forgot the UK. Way to go.

Here is a relatively recent political map of Europe where you can decide what countries would bein al Zawahiri's Spain to Iraq jihad call.

http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/1_MAP/1_map_europe_2001_enlarged.htm

Thanks for mentioning Britain which is not located east of Spain so is not included in those remarks. Granted Britain is rapidly becoming The Islamic Republic of West Pakistan.

It is inane comments like these that truly reveal what little knowledge you have.

The commandments were first written in Hebrew in the year 100 B.C.E.

There were no secular government enforced laws in America until the Pilgrims Landed at Plymouth Rock, Massachusetts circa Dec 11, 1620 (A.D.) and these laws they brought with them from England. There were no U.S. laws because there was no independent U.S.until July 4th, 1776.

The 10 commandments existed 1,876 years before there were any secular laws in the United States.

People living in the colonies were allowed to kill each other, steal, and commit perjury? Even the native Indians?

 

[SteveGrenard]

So, you made up the list of countries, but forgot the UK. Way to go.

Why do you lie? The list of countries is based on the geography outlined by al Zawahiri as calling for jihad from Spain to Iraq. These are some of the major countries in the area occupied from Spain to Iraq.

It is inane comments like these that truly reveal what little knowledge you have.

Do you actally believe the UK is located between Spain and Iraq? Ooookay.

It is inane comments about inane comments like these that proves you selectively read what suits your agenda and that you employ deception in debate. Why do you lie about the UK's geographic location?

People living in the colonies were allowed to kill each other, steal, and commit perjury? Even the native Indians?

In the absence of secular law some colonists enforced God's law which, hey, wait a minute, it's the good ole ten commandments again. Only 1, 720 years after they were first published. Did Indians kill each other in tribal war, feuds and other rituals. Yes. Were they legally punished .No. If you disagree or claim otherwise, kindly provide the Native American Indian legal code extant between 100 BCE and 1620 or 1776. I'll accept either latter year.

 

[CFLarsen]

Why do you lie? The list of countries is based on the geography outlined by al Zawahiri as calling for jihad from Spain to Iraq. These are some of the major countries in the area occupied from Spain to Iraq.

I don't lie, Steve. You, OTOH, make up things as you go.

Do you actally believe the UK is located between Spain and Iraq? Ooookay.

No, Steve, I don't. Again, you invent things. But you are the one talking about latitudes: The UK is nowhere near the latitude of Spain-Iraq.

It is inane comments about inane comments like these that proves you selectively read what suits your agenda and that you employ deception in debate.

What do you base your claim that "Britain is rapidly becoming The Islamic Republic of West Pakistan" on?

Why do you lie about the UK's geographic location?

In the absence of secular law some colonists enforced God's law which, hey, wait a minute, it's the good ole ten commandments again. Only 1, 720 years after they were first published. Did Indians kill each other in tribal war, feuds and other rituals. Yes. Were they legally punished by death.No. If you disagree or claim otherwise provide the Native American Indian legal code between 100 BCE and 1620 or 1776.

You are not seriously saying that Native American Indians (within their own tribe - we are not talking about war) could just kill each other without fearing any repercussions?

 

[SteveGrenard]

I don't lie, Steve. You, OTOH, make up things as you go.

Wrong. I provide cites, URLs, references. Your sole purpose here is not to do anything but ask silly or inane questions. You lie by misattribution and asking questions which have no answers because of the way they are worded. These are cheap, deceptive tricks. Your ticket has been punched.

No, Steve, I don't. Again, you invent things. But you are the one talking about latitudes: The UK is nowhere near the latitude of Spain-Iraq.

Good. Then why did you bring up the UK then since they were not in the specified jihadi area. I was talking about longitudes, Spain to Iraq. I stipulated, now for the fourth time, that al Zawahiri did not specify the latitudes of the area of his called for jihad. It could be anarrow strip of the globe between Spain and Iraq or it could cover from South Africa to the Arctic Circle. Somehow I surmise it is the broader area given islam's overall globalization aim.

The UK is NOT only in a higher latiude than Spain, it is also NOT longtiudinally between
Spain and Iraq which is why I did not include it but you demanded to know why it wasn't included. I was following al Zawahiri's words in my report of them. It's called accuracy, not deception.

What do you base your claim that "Britain is rapidly becoming The Islamic Republic of West Pakistan" on?

There is a map on the net of the islamization of Europe by the year 2015.

You are not seriously saying that Native American Indians (within their own tribe - we are not talking about war) could just kill each other without fearing any repercussions?

Yes in feuds, challenges, as well as tribal warfare. Instead of answering by asking a silly question prove your claim that native American Indians had laws against perjury, larceny and murder extending back before 100 BCE.

 

[Mycroft]

People living in the colonies were allowed to kill each other, steal, and commit perjury? Even the native Indians?

I don’t see where any of these things were said. Could you point it out to me?

 

[CFLarsen]

Wrong. I provide cites, URLs, references. Your sole purpose here is not to do anything but ask silly or inane questions. You lie by misattribution and asking questions which have no answers because of the way they are worded. These are cheap, deceptive tricks. Your ticket has been punched.

Rrrrright....

Good. Then why did you bring up the UK then since they were not in the specified jihadi area. I was talking about longitudes, Spain to Iraq. I stipulated, now for the fourth time, that al Zawahiri did not specify the latitudes of the area of his called for jihad. It could be anarrow strip of the globe between Spain and Iraq or it could cover from South Africa to the Arctic Circle. Somehow I surmise it is the broader area given islam's overall globalization aim.

The UK is NOT only in a higher latiude than Spain, it is also NOT longtiudinally between
Spain and Iraq which is why I did not include it but you demanded to know why it wasn't included. I was following al Zawahiri's words in my report of them. It's called accuracy, not deception.

Why? You actually ask why I bring it up? I'll tell you why, Steve: Because of the Al-Qaeda bombing on 7/7-2005. That blows your (invented) list of countries totally out of the water.

There is a map on the net of the islamization of Europe by the year 2015.

What map? Based on what? Reality or fantasies?

Yes in feuds, challenges, as well as tribal warfare. Instead of answering by asking a silly question prove your claim that native American Indians had laws against perjury, larceny and murder extending back before 100 BCE.

It is very much on the mark, Steve. If those laws existed before the 10 Commandments, then you cannot possibly claim that they are the reason why we have laws against killing, theft and perjury.

 

[Mycroft]

Why? You actually ask why I bring it up? I'll tell you why, Steve: Because of the Al-Qaeda bombing on 7/7-2005. That blows your (invented) list of countries totally out of the water.

It does, doesn’t it?

But the problem is the logical contradiction isn’t Steve Grenard’s to resolve, the logical contradiction is Zawahiri’s. He’s the one that made the statement that SG quoted from.

It is very much on the mark, Steve. If those laws existed before the 10 Commandments, then you cannot possibly claim that they are the reason why we have laws against killing, theft and perjury.

You’re confusing the initial claim that the rules have a foundation in the Ten Commandments with a straw-man claiming that these rules are based solely on the Ten Commandments and nothing else.

Nobody claims these rules don’t also have roots elsewhere.

 

[CFLarsen]

It does, doesn’t it?

But the problem is the logical contradiction isn’t Steve Grenard’s to resolve, the logical contradiction is Zawahiri’s. He’s the one that made the statement that SG quoted from.

Rubbish. The problem is Steve's. He is the one who listed the countries.

You’re confusing the initial claim that the rules have a foundation in the Ten Commandments with a straw-man claiming that these rules are based solely on the Ten Commandments and nothing else.

Nobody claims these rules don’t also have roots elsewhere.

Rubbish. If they had a foundation in the 10 Commandments, then you have to be able to show a direct reference that it was because of the 10 Commandments.

Otherwise, you will have to admit that these three laws were simply following precedence from all other civilizations.

You can't hang that on the 10 Commandments, no matter how much you try.

 

[SteveGrenard]

Wrong I did not list the countries.

al Zawahiri did that when he called for jihad from Spain to Iraq. You asked what countries would be involved, you are the one feigning ignorance of the map between Spain and Iraq.

If Zawahiri and AlQueda were responsible for the London train and bus bombs, and I have
no doubt that their centralized authority does have such responsibility, it is clearly
Zawahiri who left Britain out of the formula from Spain to Iraq in his call for jihad. Maybe he figures Britain is already a done deal and will be islamicized without jihad. How many devout moslems live in the UK now?

 

[SteveGrenard]

Larsen: What map? Based on what? Reality or fantasies?

This map:

http://vikingphoenix.com/blog/antidote/2005/07/map-of-europe-2015.html


Sorry. UK is just renamed North Pakistan. France is called Islamic Republic of New Algeria.

It is a pessimistic rendition based on the stated objectives of the jihad called for by moslems against Europe. With folks like you apologizing for the muslim jihadists and defending them, this projected map becomes more and more of a reality with each passing moment.

Winston Churchill on Islam


How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.

The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.

-Sir Winston Churchill (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-250.)

as quoted on:

http://vikingphoenix.com/blog/antidote/antidote.html

 

[CFLarsen]

Wrong I did not list the countries.

Liar.

On July 27th al Zawahiri gave a videotaped message outlining the proposed jihad from Spain to Iraq. Please see above. I have also provided you with a URL and brief quote of the relevant passage. The countries between Spain and Iraq, the proposed extent of the jihad, should be well known to an educated person. Since you are asking for these do I assume you are not familiar with the geopolitcal subdivisions between Spain and Iraq? These include Spain, France, Monaco, San Marino, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Lebanon, Israel, the Palestinian territories, and Iraq. Along more northern latitudes they include Luxemburg, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, and part of Scandinavia. I hope that helps.

al Zawahiri did that when he called for jihad from Spain to Iraq. You asked what countries would be involved, you are the one feigning ignorance of the map between Spain and Iraq.

Liar.

He did not list the countries. He named two and drew an imaginary line without listing the countries.

If Zawahiri and AlQueda were responsible for the London train and bus bombs, and I have
no doubt that their centralized authority does have such responsibility, it is clearly
Zawahiri who left Britain out of the formula from Spain to Iraq in his call for jihad. Maybe he figures Britain is already a done deal and will be islamicized without jihad. How many devout moslems live in the UK now?

You find your own data.

This map:

http://vikingphoenix.com/blog/antidote/2005/07/map-of-europe-2015.html

Sorry. UK is just renamed North Pakistan. France is called Islamic Republic of New Algeria.

It is a pessimistic rendition based on the stated objectives of the jihad called for by moslems against Europe. With folks like you apologizing for the muslim jihadists and defending them, this projected map becomes more and more of a reality with each passing moment.

Wow. Some blogger invents a map and you gobble it up, uncritically.

 

[SteveGrenard]

Wrong.

Dr. al Zwahiri defined the countries when he called for jihad from Spain to Iraq. Any sane rational person knows what this means. I see that you don't.

 

[SteveGrenard]

He did not list the countries. He named two and drew an imaginary line without listing the countries.

Explain how you know he drew a line and that it was imaginary.

Wow. Some blogger invents a map and you gobble it up, uncritically.

No, I considered the opinion of Sir Winston Churchill on the spread of mohammededism (islam) in europe and elsewhere.

 

[CFLarsen]

Wrong.

Dr. al Zwahiri defined the countries when he called for jihad from Spain to Iraq. Any sane rational person knows what this means. I see that you don't.

Explain how you know he drew a line and that it was imaginary.

How I know he drew a line? You told me!

How can it not be imaginary?

No, I considered the opinion of Sir Winston Churchill on the spread of mohammededism (islam) in europe and elsewhere.

What?? What on Earth are you talking about?? Did he make that map?

 

[SteveGrenard]

Here is the data on moslems in Britain:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom

www.minorityrights.org%a0/admin/Download/pdf/muslimsinbritain.pdf

see page 4.