Crazy Chainsaw
Philosopher
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 8,339
I thought it was a flea circus it left me scratching my head saying are these people actually that stupid?
-
Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more
AE911 Webinars
- Thread starter MileHighMadness
- Start date
I thought it was a flea circus it left me scratching my head saying are these people actually that stupid?
They have nothing new to add. They don't really do any "research" in the sense to model a building collapse, or those buildings collapsing. They seem to think they couldn't collapse!
They spend all then "energy" on falsely (waste of time) attacking the work of NIST.
Even if NIST was wrong in the location... unfought fires can and in these cases cause the collapses. They will not accept this concept.
They are aiming their pitch at people are easily swayed because they have little to know technical understanding about structure and those structures. Their approach turns it into a cartoon like anything can happen approach.
It's amazing how many people have been taken in by this. And many are not unintelligent. I suspect confirmation bias clouds rational thinking.
They spend all then "energy" on falsely (waste of time) attacking the work of NIST.
Even if NIST was wrong in the location... unfought fires can and in these cases cause the collapses. They will not accept this concept.
They are aiming their pitch at people are easily swayed because they have little to know technical understanding about structure and those structures. Their approach turns it into a cartoon like anything can happen approach.
It's amazing how many people have been taken in by this. And many are not unintelligent. I suspect confirmation bias clouds rational thinking.
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2009
- Messages
- 18,941
Watching it right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFEMi617B6Q
The "Discussion Topics" around 2:00 include:
"East penthouse collapse as a separate and distinct event"
The dust issue is not listed there.
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2009
- Messages
- 18,941
OMG, at 17:30 he shows Figure 12-69 of the draft of NCSTAR 1-9 (12-70 in the final report) - the simulation of the final 47 story collapse model that NIST did without the initial structural from the WTC1 debris impacts; which consequently doesn't look much like the real collapse.
I am sure we have told Tony and other truthers many many times over the past 7 years that this is the WRONG model to show - that he ought to present Figure 12-73 of the final report instead.
I must call that deliberate, flat-out deception. Tony is most plainly lying here.
I am sure we have told Tony and other truthers many many times over the past 7 years that this is the WRONG model to show - that he ought to present Figure 12-73 of the final report instead.
I must call that deliberate, flat-out deception. Tony is most plainly lying here.
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
Tonys' in marketing. You can't expect total truth if your going to sell your product...............
Last edited:
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2009
- Messages
- 18,941
Starting at 26:44, he presents results from an analysis he did of a work of Prof. Guy Nordenson, who was retained as an expert witness in the lawsuit ConEdison et al vs. Silverstein and the companies that built WTC7.
In short, Nordenson computed how a failing 79-44 girder and the resulting fall of the floor section it bore would impact the floor below. He found that the dynamic load would be far greater than the capacity of the girder seat on the floor below. This would start a cascade of floor failures several floors down - triggering total collapse.
Tony found that Nordenson's model treats the load as a point load, which in effect would have infinite stiffness, while in reality, the falling floor section has some flexibility and would deflect on impact, lowering the impact force. He modelled the steel parts of the floor assembly, FEA gave him the natural frequency of it, and from there, stiffness can be computed, and with that the resulting impact force. His result: Seat capacity would be about 3 times that force - the connection would not break, collapse arrests.
We (Tony vs. myself mostly, with ozeco, JSO and others weighing in) have been discussing this over at Metabunk:
https://www.metabunk.org/does-the-e...rder-calculations-demonstrate-anything.t7185/
Around page 5, our understanding converges, and we agree that by adding the falling girder's stiffness and resulting energy dissipation, Nordenson's result would have to be corrected nearer towards a conclusion "collapse might be arrested (or not)".
In Post #200 of that Metabunk thread, Tony presents the FEA results he also presents in the Webinar.
Unfortunately, it seems that this FEA hasn't undergone a critical review - we have to believe that Tony did it right.
I think Tony ought not present this part as proven fact - he should submit the work to peer review.
In short, Nordenson computed how a failing 79-44 girder and the resulting fall of the floor section it bore would impact the floor below. He found that the dynamic load would be far greater than the capacity of the girder seat on the floor below. This would start a cascade of floor failures several floors down - triggering total collapse.
Tony found that Nordenson's model treats the load as a point load, which in effect would have infinite stiffness, while in reality, the falling floor section has some flexibility and would deflect on impact, lowering the impact force. He modelled the steel parts of the floor assembly, FEA gave him the natural frequency of it, and from there, stiffness can be computed, and with that the resulting impact force. His result: Seat capacity would be about 3 times that force - the connection would not break, collapse arrests.
We (Tony vs. myself mostly, with ozeco, JSO and others weighing in) have been discussing this over at Metabunk:
https://www.metabunk.org/does-the-e...rder-calculations-demonstrate-anything.t7185/
Around page 5, our understanding converges, and we agree that by adding the falling girder's stiffness and resulting energy dissipation, Nordenson's result would have to be corrected nearer towards a conclusion "collapse might be arrested (or not)".
In Post #200 of that Metabunk thread, Tony presents the FEA results he also presents in the Webinar.
Unfortunately, it seems that this FEA hasn't undergone a critical review - we have to believe that Tony did it right.
I think Tony ought not present this part as proven fact - he should submit the work to peer review.
Tony has been wrong about the FOS of the steel I believe. The facade steel definitely used different grades of steel. The core likely none of the really high strength grades. The face used it because the column size was constrained... not so with the core columns. FOS is based on loads... local loads or aggregate/averaged loads... and sum of all column cross sections.
Crazy Chainsaw
Philosopher
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 8,339
Tony' Webinar is hilarious, but right now I have real engineering problems to deal with
Such as defective aftermarket, bull dozer gator link bolts . Can any one point out the problem or do you think I need Tony's expert advice on this one?
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
Looks pretty clear to me. The red residue in the threads of the broken bolt looks like iron oxide, and we all know that the only possible reason to find iron oxide in the vicinity of corroded steel is because it's been in contact with thermite. Add to that the white residue on the fractured surface, which can be seen by even a casual observer to be aluminium oxide from reacted thermite, and it's totally obvious that this bolt has been sabotaged by a high precision, military grade thermite shaped charge.
Dave
ETA: The apparent narrowing of the third bolt is clearly an optical illusion caused by atmospheric refraction, and in the absence of time-stamped videos to back up the pictures there is no plausible evidence that the other bolts have not fractured in exactly the same way. They have clearly been Photoshopped to resemble intact bolts using the WESCAM system.
Last edited:
NoahFence
Banned
They're aren't functional in that capacity. You've got them (it appears) on a deck or a railing. They need to go in the bulldozer.
The 4th one that is split looks like it's missing duct tape.
Crazy Chainsaw
Philosopher
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 8,339
Oh I thought some super glue or Epoxy would work, the duct tape it.
Maybe now that Tony is back I should get his opinion on it?
tinribmancer
Hasbarian NWO Templar Cattle
Szamboti has an account here?
What about those other 2 Money collectors, Cole & Gage?
Crazy Chainsaw
Philosopher
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 8,339
Yes Tony is a member, Cole and Gage would never come here, Tony has been arguing building 7 for years.
tinribmancer
Hasbarian NWO Templar Cattle
Crazy Chainsaw
Philosopher
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 8,339
So much time being wasted on woo...
...oh wait, this is his job. My mistake.
The only Job he is qualified for.