Acceleration of the falling top blocks.

[phunk]

They aren't hot enough to do what was done to the WTC. Localized regions of sagging steel might be expected, but not what happened on 9/11.

"Localized" meaning a fire spread over several acres. What do you think happens to the strength of a steel structure when columns start to "sag"?

 

[twinstead]

They aren't hot enough to do what was done to the WTC. Localized regions of sagging steel might be expected, but not what happened on 9/11.

Exactly how does your training and expertise qualify you to legitimately expect anything at all concerning this subject?

 

[Oystein]

Funny that you would make claims about heat...

I do know how hot jet fuel fires burn and how hot office fires burn, and I do know that the WTC survived a severe fire in the seventies. Open fires with hydrocarbon fuel (jet fuel and office furnishings are both primarily hydrocarbon) don't get hot enough to weaken steel.

...after asserting this:

I've gone over this many times before. Heat was not the mechanism for destruction of the WTC, so it is a waste of time to go into calculations about heat.

But since you know how hot jet fuel fires burn, and since you know how hot office fires burn, and since you know that it takes more than the temperature of office fires to weaken steal we might, after you offered this...

What more would you like?

...return to what I would like from you:

Funny, you made a lot of claims about temperatures, some being higher or lower than others, but when taken to task, you dodge completely. So let me provide your answers for you:

Is this LITERALLY true? You have at least done 2000 such experiments?
WTC Dust Answer: No, that was made up and hyperbole

Did any (if yes, how many?) of these experiments involve structural materials such as steel,
WTC Dust Answer: None

and did any of these experiments (and if yes, how many?) measure the change of mechanical properties of such structural materials resulting from temperature change?
WTC Dust Answer: None

How hot would that [office fires] be? Can you give (and source) numbers?
WTC Dust Answer: I have no idea

How hot would that [temperature at which steel weakens] be? Can you give (and source) numbers?
WTC Dust Answer: I have no idea

Are these numbers now greater than, less than, or about equal to, the number you provided to my previous question?
WTC Dust Answer: I can't tell since I don't actually have any numbers to compare

Basically you are claiming that NO hydrocarbon fire at all could ever damage and destroy any steel structure at all - do I understand that correctly?
WTC Dust Answer: Well, I made that up, never mind.

What temperature does the steel in jet engines reach? Sources, please!
WTC Dust Answer: I have no idea.

Is that the same steel that's used in highrises?
WTC Dust Answer: I have no idea, probably not

How hot do jet fuel fires burn? Source?
WTC Dust Answer: I have no idea.

How hot do office fires burn? Source?
WTC Dust Answer: I still have no idea.

Let's suspend judgement on that [whether we are stuck with a temperature deficit] until we see your numbers.
WTC Dust Answer: I have no numbers, so I retract my claim. I pulled out of a place you don't want to think too hard about.

Let's suspend judgement on that [whether toe official story accounts for collapse initiation] until we have seen your numbers
WTC Dust Answer: I have no idea what the official story is, and wouldn't understand that, so let me drop this, please. It embarrasses me too much




Thanks for playing!
Oh wait...

So please, would you mind answering:

How hot would office fires be? Can you give (and source) numbers?

How hot would the temperature at which steel weakens be? Can you give (and source) numbers?

Are these numbers now greater than, less than, or about equal to, the number you provided to my previous question?

Basically you are claiming that NO hydrocarbon fire at all could ever damage and destroy any steel structure at all - do I understand that correctly?

What temperature does the steel in jet engines reach? Sources, please!

Is that the same steel that's used in highrises?

How hot do jet fuel fires burn? Source?


Oh and while we are at it, and you already answered...

Is this LITERALLY true? You have at least done 2000 such experiments?​

with this:

I've done thousands of experiments. The results have been published in peer reviewed journals. Each and every one of them (and many more that didn't end up in published journals) took temperature into account.

...please go full circle and also answer these:
Did any (if yes, how many?) of these experiments involve structural materials such as steel,

and did any of these experiments (and if yes, how many?) measure the change of mechanical properties of such structural materials resulting from temperature change?


Oh wait - you did NOT actually answer this:

Is this LITERALLY true? You have at least done 2000 such experiments?​

Please now!

 

[Oystein]

Why are you talking in mysteries and analogies? I asked you what, under your theory, destroyed the columns after the floors detached. Until I get this answer, I'll still be wondering what your opinion is.

I told you, and several others did:

Gravity.

Now stop lying about not having received an answer, and do the *********** expermient:

One long very slender column made up of a number of individiual straws that are not laterally supported.

Vs. a singel straw.

Observe.​

Then answer this:
What is different about the very long, slender straw column vs. the not so slender, long single straw?
(To help you with this, I left hints by applying some boldfacing)

And what force destroyed the long, slender straw. Was it a directed energy weapon? A foamifcation device? God? A nuclear blast? Or - low and behold - gravity?

 

[Oystein]

I expect steel to sag with extreme heat. Not shatter.

Good.

Did any steel subjected to extreme heat shatter?
Or any other steel?

Oh - and before you answer: Please define "shatter"!

 

[Oystein]

They aren't hot enough to do what was done to the WTC. Localized regions of sagging steel might be expected, but not what happened on 9/11.

What happened - I am confused: Did any steel shatter, or did any steel turn to foam? Or are both the same?

 

[Justin39640]

You really don't need to continue to repeat the official story. I've heard it many times over the years.

You need to reconsider your belief that office fire temps can't harm steel. You're dead wrong. At that temperature I can bend steel quite easily.

 

[beachnut]

E=mgh.

The energy of more than 115 tons of TNT released, E=mgh. Gravity did it, mass did it, and being up there did it. Try physics instead of making up idiotic claims of steel turning to dust and foam. You are the winner of making up the most insane claims, tied with Judy, and all no-plane nuts.

WTC Dust does not do science.

Since gravity is unknown to her, she can't move past her delusions. But then the building comes down, but gravity did not do it. The means with CD, gravity did not do it. She has no clue gravity, the energy in this equation, E=mgh, is used to in CD to destroy buildings. Most of 911 truth fails, and can't grasp the facts.

Somebody give WTC Dust a job, please.

The thing about gravity is that it didn't change significantly over the time period in question. So, at one moment, you have a building standing there. Then, at another moment, you have a building being destroyed. Gravity didn't do this.

 

[Oystein]

A few posts with many Dusty conveniently chose not to answer:

Funny that you would make claims about heat...

...after asserting this:


But since you know how hot jet fuel fires burn, and since you know how hot office fires burn, and since you know that it takes more than the temperature of office fires to weaken steal we might, after you offered this...

...return to what I would like from you:


So please, would you mind answering:

How hot would office fires be? Can you give (and source) numbers?

How hot would the temperature at which steel weakens be? Can you give (and source) numbers?

Are these numbers now greater than, less than, or about equal to, the number you provided to my previous question?

Basically you are claiming that NO hydrocarbon fire at all could ever damage and destroy any steel structure at all - do I understand that correctly?

What temperature does the steel in jet engines reach? Sources, please!

Is that the same steel that's used in highrises?

How hot do jet fuel fires burn? Source?


Oh and while we are at it, and you already answered...

Is this LITERALLY true? You have at least done 2000 such experiments?​

with this:

...please go full circle and also answer these:
Did any (if yes, how many?) of these experiments involve structural materials such as steel,

and did any of these experiments (and if yes, how many?) measure the change of mechanical properties of such structural materials resulting from temperature change?


Oh wait - you did NOT actually answer this:

Is this LITERALLY true? You have at least done 2000 such experiments?​

Please now!

I told you, and several others did:

Gravity.

Now stop lying about not having received an answer, and do the *********** expermient:

One long very slender column made up of a number of individiual straws that are not laterally supported.

Vs. a singel straw.

Observe.​

Then answer this:
What is different about the very long, slender straw column vs. the not so slender, long single straw?
(To help you with this, I left hints by applying some boldfacing)

And what force destroyed the long, slender straw. Was it a directed energy weapon? A foamifcation device? God? A nuclear blast? Or - low and behold - gravity?

Good.

Did any steel subjected to extreme heat shatter?
Or any other steel?

Oh - and before you answer: Please define "shatter"!

Don't bother. I know you don't answer because you don't want to expose yourself too much

 

[WTC Dust]

I've done many thousands of experiments that controlled for temperature.

Funny that you would make claims about heat...

...after asserting this:


But since you know how hot jet fuel fires burn, and since you know how hot office fires burn, and since you know that it takes more than the temperature of office fires to weaken steal we might, after you offered this...

...return to what I would like from you:


So please, would you mind answering:

How hot would office fires be? Can you give (and source) numbers?

How hot would the temperature at which steel weakens be? Can you give (and source) numbers?

Are these numbers now greater than, less than, or about equal to, the number you provided to my previous question?

Basically you are claiming that NO hydrocarbon fire at all could ever damage and destroy any steel structure at all - do I understand that correctly?

What temperature does the steel in jet engines reach? Sources, please!

Is that the same steel that's used in highrises?

How hot do jet fuel fires burn? Source?


Oh and while we are at it, and you already answered...

Is this LITERALLY true? You have at least done 2000 such experiments?​

with this:

...please go full circle and also answer these:
Did any (if yes, how many?) of these experiments involve structural materials such as steel,

and did any of these experiments (and if yes, how many?) measure the change of mechanical properties of such structural materials resulting from temperature change?


Oh wait - you did NOT actually answer this:

Is this LITERALLY true? You have at least done 2000 such experiments?​

Please now!

 

[000063]

That's a very specific answer to a question that wasn't asked.

 

[Oystein]

I've done many thousands of experiments that controlled for temperature.

Cool. One fairly mundane and uninteresting question down, nine more, and more interesting, ones to go:

Did any (if yes, how many?) of these experiments involve structural materials such as steel,

and did any of these experiments (and if yes, how many?) measure the change of mechanical properties of such structural materials resulting from temperature change?



How hot would office fires be? Can you give (and source) numbers?

How hot would the temperature at which steel weakens be? Can you give (and source) numbers?

Are these numbers now greater than, less than, or about equal to, the number you provided to my previous question?

Basically you are claiming that NO hydrocarbon fire at all could ever damage and destroy any steel structure at all - do I understand that correctly?

What temperature does the steel in jet engines reach? Sources, please!

Is that the same steel that's used in highrises?

How hot do jet fuel fires burn? Source?

 

[MIKILLINI]

I've done many thousands of experiments that controlled for temperature.

What? Is that all you can respond with? Seriously? You gave no answer to any of those questions...And those were specific questions that someone with thousands of "Controlled temperature" experiments should be able to answer.

To sum it up: Epic fail

 

[WTC Dust]

Look all that stuff up yourself. None of it is difficult to find.

Cool. One fairly mundane and uninteresting question down, nine more, and more interesting, ones to go:

Did any (if yes, how many?) of these experiments involve structural materials such as steel,

and did any of these experiments (and if yes, how many?) measure the change of mechanical properties of such structural materials resulting from temperature change?



How hot would office fires be? Can you give (and source) numbers?

How hot would the temperature at which steel weakens be? Can you give (and source) numbers?

Are these numbers now greater than, less than, or about equal to, the number you provided to my previous question?

Basically you are claiming that NO hydrocarbon fire at all could ever damage and destroy any steel structure at all - do I understand that correctly?

What temperature does the steel in jet engines reach? Sources, please!

Is that the same steel that's used in highrises?

How hot do jet fuel fires burn? Source?

 

[Oystein]

Look all that stuff up yourself. None of it is difficult to find.

Incorrect. The following two I cannot look up:

Did any (if yes, how many?) of your experiments involve structural materials such as steel,

and did any of these experiments (and if yes, how many?) measure the change of mechanical properties of such structural materials resulting from temperature change?



The rest I want YOU to answer, because you nade claims that imply that YOU already have the answers. I want YOU to figure out - and admit! - that you were WRONG. Yes, I know the answers, and because of this I KNOW that your claims were TOTALLY WRONG. You better learn this the hard way. So please, answer, and don't dodge:


How hot would office fires be? Can you give (and source) numbers?

How hot would the temperature at which steel weakens be? Can you give (and source) numbers?

Are these numbers now greater than, less than, or about equal to, the number you provided to my previous question?

Basically you are claiming that NO hydrocarbon fire at all could ever damage and destroy any steel structure at all - do I understand that correctly?

What temperature does the steel in jet engines reach? Sources, please!

Is that the same steel that's used in highrises?

How hot do jet fuel fires burn? Source?

 

[WTC Dust]

Do you often get people to look up facts and figures for you?

Incorrect. The following two I cannot look up:

Did any (if yes, how many?) of your experiments involve structural materials such as steel,

and did any of these experiments (and if yes, how many?) measure the change of mechanical properties of such structural materials resulting from temperature change?



The rest I want YOU to answer, because you nade claims that imply that YOU already have the answers. I want YOU to figure out - and admit! - that you were WRONG. Yes, I know the answers, and because of this I KNOW that your claims were TOTALLY WRONG. You better learn this the hard way. So please, answer, and don't dodge:


How hot would office fires be? Can you give (and source) numbers?

How hot would the temperature at which steel weakens be? Can you give (and source) numbers?

Are these numbers now greater than, less than, or about equal to, the number you provided to my previous question?

Basically you are claiming that NO hydrocarbon fire at all could ever damage and destroy any steel structure at all - do I understand that correctly?

What temperature does the steel in jet engines reach? Sources, please!

Is that the same steel that's used in highrises?

How hot do jet fuel fires burn? Source?

 

[Mudcat]

Do you often get people to look up facts and figures for you?

If you have done the experiments you claimed to have done you'd be able to supply the relevant results. That you don't is suspicious.

 

[Newtons Bit]

They aren't hot enough to do what was done to the WTC. Localized regions of sagging steel might be expected, but not what happened on 9/11.

Sagging steel means that it has failed, thus it was hot enough. Most buildings will suffer a collapse from a small number (or even a single) column failure. A structure like the WTC can redistribute the load from a large number of failed columns. However there is a limit to that number, and it was reached.

 

[MIKILLINI]

Do you often get people to look up facts and figures for you?

This pattern is how you operate to avoid answering tough questions..It's becoming quite predictable. You can't see how much this destroys your argument, can you?

Oystein knows the answers, because he did the research/work to make solid conclusions. Apparently you don't know the answers, or won't give them because you know the numbers prove him right.

 

[Oystein]

Do you often get people to look up facts and figures for you?

No. I ask you to back up your claims with facts and figures. Please now - stop dodging and answer, or retract your earlier claims:


Did any (if yes, how many?) of your experiments involve structural materials such as steel,

and did any of these experiments (and if yes, how many?) measure the change of mechanical properties of such structural materials resulting from temperature change?


How hot would office fires be? Can you give (and source) numbers?

How hot would the temperature at which steel weakens be? Can you give (and source) numbers?

Are these numbers now greater than, less than, or about equal to, the number you provided to my previous question?

Basically you are claiming that NO hydrocarbon fire at all could ever damage and destroy any steel structure at all - do I understand that correctly?

What temperature does the steel in jet engines reach? Sources, please!

Is that the same steel that's used in highrises?

How hot do jet fuel fires burn? Source?