About guns in the home

[shecky]

what they don't keep statistics on is how often a gun is used to chase off a badguy or how often the badguy dosen't bother someone or their home because the know the ower is armed

I'm not sure how they could even collect any reliable figures for such actions. How do you tally potential crimes that never actually happen?

 

[Molinaro]

I live in the 5th largest city in North America and I've never seen a gun in my 37 years. I've never heard of any friend, or relative being robbed, assaulted, home invaded or anything of the sort. Nor have I ever heard of any of them telling 2nd hand stories along those lines.

If you are a crimminal looking into breaking into a house, and you believe the homeowner may be armed, what do you do?

Shoot first would seem the logical choice for someone who has already decided to break in.

Arming yourselves only serves to make the situation worse. You are simply making it that much easier for crimminals to find guns. And making it much more likely that they will feel a need to use one on you.

The absurdity of reason used by the pro gun crowd is the last toe-hold of woo thinking among otherwise rational people.

It's funny, and sad.

50,000,000+ guns manufactured in the US each year.. and of course that has nothing to do with how easy they are to come by for crimminals.

Yes guns do get used in crimes here in Toronto now and again. And where do those guns come from.. well big surprise nearly half are stolen from private homes. And many others come accross the border from the US.

If they weren't being manufactured by the tens of millions each year, if they weren't in every other home waiting to be stolen, if once confiscated from crimminals they were destroyed, crimminals wouldn't find them so easy to come by.

And just maybe if people were forced to take a knife and plunge it into someone with their own hands, instead of casualy firing off a few shots half-heartedly -- we wouldn't have as many people killed on impulse.

Ah what am I thinking.. since when does common sense have anything to do with this topic.

 

[BPSCG]

My English gunbug friend and I have speculated a lot on what would make a good home-protection load in a shotgun.

Grapeshot.

Or would that be overkill?

 

[BPSCG]

If you are a crimminal looking into breaking into a house, and you believe the homeowner may be armed, what do you do?

Shoot first would seem the logical choice

Sorry, the correct answer is B) Find another house to break into.

 

[RandFan]

If you are a criminal looking into breaking into a house, and you believe the homeowner may be armed, what do you do?

Go to another house.

Shoot first would seem the logical choice for someone who has already decided to break in.

This is not rooted in the real world. Criminals look for the easiest target.

Arming yourselves only serves to make the situation worse. You are simply making it that much easier for crimminals to find guns. And making it much more likely that they will feel a need to use one on you.

This is just your assertions and is not grounded in reality.

The absurdity of reason used by the pro gun crowd is the last toe-hold of woo thinking among otherwise rational people.

It's funny, and sad.

Rhetorical.

50,000,000+ guns manufactured in the US each year.. and of course that has nothing to do with how easy they are to come by for crimminals.

Yes guns do get used in crimes here in Toronto now and again. And where do those guns come from.. well big surprise nearly half are stolen from private homes. And many others come accross the border from the US.

If they weren't being manufactured by the tens of millions each year, if they weren't in every other home waiting to be stolen, if once confiscated from crimminals they were destroyed, crimminals wouldn't find them so easy to come by.

And just maybe if people were forced to take a knife and plunge it into someone with their own hands, instead of casualy firing off a few shots half-heartedly -- we wouldn't have as many people killed on impulse.

Ah what am I thinking.. since when does common sense have anything to do with this topic.

Considering that your post is simply random thoughts without any supporting evidence I would have to agree with you.

One more thing, I make mistakes with grammar and spelling. Hell, who doesn't. But come on, spell check your post will you? It's painful to read so many misspelled words and I have to stop on each one when spell checking mine and choose not to correct it to avoid editing your words. It's just common courtesy and I will readily concede that it does not reflect on the validity of your arguments.

Thanks,

RandFan

 

[RandFan]

Sorry, the correct answer is B) Find another house to break into.

Damn you BPSCG, I saw it first but I spent more time responding thus getting my post in after yours. I demand that your post be deleted or moved to a position after mine or red text inserted into a mod box explaining that I was first to note this glaring error in logic.

 

[BPSCG]

Damn you BPSCG, I saw it first but I spent more time responding thus getting my post in after yours. I demand that your post be deleted or moved to a position after mine or red text inserted into a mod box explaining that I was first to note this glaring error in logic.

**** you. I have a gun. I can't help it if you're a long-winded sonofabitch.

 

[RandFan]

**** you. I have a gun. I can't help it if you're a long-winded sonofabitch.

Ok, this time. But I'm going down to my local gun dealer and buy a gun. A big one. 50 cal BMG. THEN we'll see who has the last laugh.

 

[BPSCG]

Yes guns do get used in crimes here in Toronto now and again. And where do those guns come from.. well big surprise nearly half are stolen from private homes. And many others come accross the border from the US.

Maybe you need to control your borders better. Why don't you build a big wall, eh?

 

[sackett]

A couple of good lines, stickies from a gun discussion site I sometimes visit:

A gun is not a microphone. Don’t pull one out and make a speech.
A gun is not a magic wand. Don’t wave one around and expect everything to change.

 

[BPSCG]

Ok, this time. But I'm going down to my local gun dealer and buy a gun. A big one. 50 cal BMG. THEN we'll see who has the last laugh.

You don't scare me pigdog. I wave my private parts at your auntie.

Plus, I know Llap Goch. Your threats frighten me like a toy poodle-dog yapping at a lion, bedwetting type.

 

[shecky]

Sorry, the correct answer is B) Find another house to break into.

Or wait until the homeowner is gone.

You forgot the other scenario gun advocates like to prepare for (after a zombie uprising): a whacked out meth addict who will not be put down by a mouse gun like a .38Spl or 9mm. Such scum won't look for another unarmed household, and will shoot regardless.

FWIW, I've lived in Los Angeles most my life and don't recall ever seeing a gun used, or even brandished, in aggression ever. I do have a high school friend who was killed with a shotgun. AFAIK, the incident was judged self defense by the police.

 

[luchog]

How would one back that up?

I can say that it strikes me as true. How to prove it? donno.

DoJ and FBI crime statistics, which are freely available on the web. They've been posted here before. No point in posting them again, since Claus will simply fail to acknowledge their validity, or even existence, and dismiss them with some sort of non-sequitor or ad hominen response; as per his usual. He might even go so far as to deny established principles of physics and medical science; as he's done in previous gun threads.

 

[luchog]

It's a testable claim. So far, no evidence has been provided.

Yes it has, and you know it, since you avoided it at the time. Try again.

 

[CFLarsen]

Yes it has, and you know it, since you avoided it at the time. Try again.

It has?

I'm sure you don't mind showing me where.

 

[luchog]

I live in the 5th largest city in North America and I've never seen a gun in my 37 years. I've never heard of any friend, or relative being robbed, assaulted, home invaded or anything of the sort. Nor have I ever heard of any of them telling 2nd hand stories along those lines.

I live in one of the safest large cities in North America, and I've heard plenty of those sorts of first-hand stories. I have two friends who would not be alive today if they had not been carrying firearms at the time.

Anecdotes are not evidence; and agumentum ad ignorantum is a logical fallacy.

If you are a crimminal looking into breaking into a house, and you believe the homeowner may be armed, what do you do?

As a rule, you don't break in.

Shoot first would seem the logical choice for someone who has already decided to break in.

Nope. Petty criminals are not likely to invade a home they strongly suspect has firearms present. They prefer "soft" targets. That's why they target the elderly, women, and weaker-looking men more often than those who look stronger and more capable of defending themselves. Criminals, like most of us, seek to minimize personal risks. Very few criminals are in the "shoot first" category. Those that are tend to be only in situations that are drug/gang related; or are mentally ill.

Arming yourselves only serves to make the situation worse. You are simply making it that much easier for crimminals to find guns. And making it much more likely that they will feel a need to use one on you.

Except that that's been repeatedly demonstrated untrue. Check out the statistics regarding firearms in Japan; and the increase in firearm-related violent crime in the UK.

50,000,000+ guns manufactured in the US each year.. and of course that has nothing to do with how easy they are to come by for crimminals.

Not really, no it isn't. Other nations have similarly high per capita firearm availability, with less violent crime involving firearms. Violent crime is, to a large extent, cultural. The highest single factor is the percentage of young adult males in the population.

Yes guns do get used in crimes here in Toronto now and again. And where do those guns come from.. well big surprise nearly half are stolen from private homes. And many others come accross the border from the US.

You mean criminals will smuggle illegal firearms if they can't get them locally? What a shock!

If they weren't being manufactured by the tens of millions each year, if they weren't in every other home waiting to be stolen, if once confiscated from crimminals they were destroyed, crimminals wouldn't find them so easy to come by.

I don't know where to begin with this. Do you have any idea what actually happens to confiscated firearms? Do you know how easy it is to construct primitive "zip gun" firearms with commonly available tools and hardware? Do you have any idea how easy it is for someone with access to a machine shop to create crude but effective automatic weapons (for example, the M3 submachine gun, aka the "Grease Gun").

Oh, and just in case you missed it, the US isn't the only nation in the world where firearms are manufactured. But as we all know, Switzerland is a similar hotbed of crime and violence.

And just maybe if people were forced to take a knife and plunge it into someone with their own hands, instead of casualy firing off a few shots half-heartedly -- we wouldn't have as many people killed on impulse.

Your own nation's statistics say otherwise.

Ah what am I thinking.. since when does common sense have anything to do with this topic.

Judging by your post, not often.

 

[lostnick3]

I've posted this before and I'll do it now just to throw my hat into the fray again.

twice now I've drawn a gun in the defense of my family. the first time i used a double barrel shot gun with oo buckshot (two men) the second time i used a glock 19 loaded with 124 grain jacketed hollow points, 1 in the pipe 10 in the magazine.

both situations were resolved in a positive manner.

my philosophy has always been if you have a gun in your hands your always going to take part in any discussion

 

[CFLarsen]

luchog,

Do you mind showing me where?

 

[BPSCG]

both situations were resolved in a positive manner.

By "in a poisitive manner," you meant:

• Persuaded the gentlemen to take their business elsewhere?
• Persuaded the gentlemen to reform, and sin no more?
• Persuaded the gentlemen to permanently attain room temperature?
• Other (please describe)?

 

[Molinaro]

This is not rooted in the real world. Criminals look for the easiest target.

That's right.. and when they are looking to get more guns, the easiest target is a home that they suspect has guns inside.

This is just your assertions and is not grounded in reality.

Reality is the # of guns taken from crimminals that were stolen from private homes. Reality is that you choose to ignore the fact that this is the case. Are you suggesting that it is 'unreal' to expect crimminals to want to be better armed than those they look to steal from? Do you realy need proof of that concept?

Considering that your post is simply random thoughts without any supporting evidence I would have to agree with you.

Thanks.. point proven. Common sense is not allowed in this discussion.


*edited to add spelling errors*