About guns in the home

ImaginalDisc said:
Even if it is an urban leged, they're claiming it's true. It hurts their credability either way. I don't even see why this would be a useful test. They claim to have done extensive testing on richocet behavior on all sorts of different material, and to have shot balastic gel blocks, to gauge its penetrating power.
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Hm. I was all ready to order some of their ammo, since I'd be interested in stopping an intruder, not stopping someone outside my house four blocks away. But this "Strasbourg Study" has a fishy smell to it, very much like the ripe aroma you get from a typical homeopathy study.

Oh well. Hey, my house has brick walls. Anyone know if that would that stop a .38?
 
My weapon of choice is a 45 cal 1911A1, but only because I have been handling the damn thing since I was a kid. I would never recommend it, or any other 45 for that matter, to someone who is "looking for a home-defense gun". A sawed-off 12 ga pump-action is really the way to go - except that it can still be clumsy in close quarters. I would not use bird-shot, though. Not enough stopping power at more than a couple of yards I would think, although that is only what my gut tells me.
 
shecky;157401....It has to be kept in mind that violence in general is pretty rare in the US. Being assaulted or worse with a firearm even moreso ....[/QUOTE said:
A good point to make, and I hope our overseas friends who are following this thread with horrified delight will take it to heart.

My concern is more with the very real gun owner than with the hypothetical criminal. From my position of VAST authority, I’ve long maintained (ahem!) that ”A responsible person can be trusted with any sort of firearm.” Anybody could agree with that, but: who is 100 percent responsible 100 percent of the time?

An English correspondent of mine, a bigger gunbug than I am (although he obeys the law and owns no guns), recently told me about wishing he could shoot his neighbor’s stereo when it keeps him awake at night. I know what he means: I’ve seriously plotted how I might shoot my former neighbor’s noisy air conditioner. More nights than one, I’ve lain in the sweaty dark, mind red and feverish with where I’d position myself to escape detection, and where I’d put the first bullet. Me, with my lifelong association with guns, and an upbringing that emphasized gun safety ahead of everything else; me, who despises a careless gun-owner. (My brother once observed that “Nothing makes you scorn the average man so much as watching him handle a gun.”) I ask again: Who is 100 percent responsible 100 percent of the time?

So that’s why I hope all of will just stash those .22s and 9 paras and .357 maggies, and arm yourselves with foresight, responsibility, and watchfulness over your emotions.
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Who is 100 percent responsible 100 percent of the time?
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That's a great point. I thought I was.

Years ago, a friend of mine bought a handgun for me. I was single and living in a bad neighborhood and had a couple freaky incidences with a guy hanging around my apartment. Overreaction? Probably. I should have just moved.

I never had to use it, altho I can recall standing in the bedroom doorway with it in my hand, jolted from sleep by a strange noise which turned out to be nothing. Not a safe situation to put oneself (or the neighbors on the other side of the thin walls) in.

Fast-forward a few years. My idiot drug-addict (ex)husband takes the gun with him one night, and never brings it home. When I noticed it missing, he claimed it must have been stolen out of the car. Even reported it stolen to the police on the phone in my presence.

I don't believe it, and didn't really then either. I'll never know what happened to that gun, (I suspect it was pawned or traded for drugs...or perhaps it was stolen... by some crack-head acquaintance of his) but I have no reason to believe it ended up in more responsible hands than mine.

One cannot control another human being, even a spouse..but looking back I never should have kept the gun in the house once he became such an untrustworthy sneak. I was not a responsible gun-owner. I just hope that missing gun never injured or killed anyone.
 
I think our original poster perhaps overestimates the penetrating power of most handgun loads. You also have to consider the construction of your dwelling, it's proximity to other dwellings, and so forth.

The typical drywall/studs interior wall will offer little resistance to most medium-power handgun rounds (.380 auto, .38 special, 9mm, etc) unless you actually hit a stud or doorframe.
Exterior walls are usually a bit tougher, and if the siding is brick, quite impenetrable. (unless you have a .50 machinegun set up)

We have had a number of "shoot-ups" of houses (usually by rival drug dealers) which have resulted in folks being wounded. I do not recall ever hearing of a defensive shooting situation where rounds escaped the house to penetrate other homes in the vicinity.

Just for the record, I too favor the lowly shotgun; it is a weapon feared and respected by criminals, and easy for most folks to use. Smaller shot is generally reccomended for home defense use, rather than heavy stuff like OO buck. At typical "room" ranges, shot size is immaterial.
Do not fall into the trap of believing that "you don't have to aim."

At short range, even with a legally-short barrell (20 inches most places) the spread will only be a couple of inches.
 
Mephisto said:
Personally, I think a 10/22 is perfect for home-defense. Not too much penetration, it puts out a fair volume of reliable (and cheap) fire and there are a TON of aftermarket items that can make any 10/22 look like a very serious threat to a home invader.

Actually, I think a 10/22 in capable hands is much better than a .38 or a .357 (both common rounds for home defense) in shaky hands for home defense.
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I have a 10/22, fantastic little rifle. I even have a 30-round clip for it, it's great to unload that thing at cans or whatever! And it'll only cost a buck or so, unlike a center-fire rifle which can get expensive fast to shoot!

eta: the brick walls in my house are 16" thick, nothing's gonna shoot through that!
 
WildCat said:
eta: the brick walls in my house are 16" thick, nothing's gonna shoot through that!
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huh? I'm just amazed at that number. 16 inches? That's a hell of a brick. That's cinder block turned sideways plus a 2/4 interal frame.

I want to visit you during the next hurricane
 
elaine said:
I inherited my father's .22 short Astra cub a few months ago and went shooting for the first time since I was a kid. Now I've got the bug. I'm looking into getting another gun, with a little more power, but not too much. Any suggestions? I'm more interested in target shooting than self-defense reasons.

Thanks!
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Target shooting? Start with a .22 rifle. Preferably a bolt action. Handguns are challenging to shoot accurately without a LOT of practice. A rifle, particularly with a modest scope, will let you put plenty of shots "in the black" and that's an ego boost. When you get good with the rifle you can try a good handgun. Revolvers are safer than semi-autos, but the Ruger semi-auto is inexpensive and a great shooter. If you want to move up to something with more power just keep in mind that the cost of ammo goes up exponentially, as does noise and recoil. BTW, the new .17HMR is VERY accurate and ammo costs are at least reasonable. But a good .22, rifle or pistol, is hard to beat. Check out some local gunshows and see what is offered.....
 
elaine said:
I inherited my father's .22 short Astra cub a few months ago and went shooting for the first time since I was a kid. Now I've got the bug. I'm looking into getting another gun, with a little more power, but not too much. Any suggestions? I'm more interested in target shooting than self-defense reasons.

Thanks!
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Elaine,
It's hard to beat a medium frame 38 Special. Four or six inch barrel with adjustable sights. A well built revolver can be amazingly accurate and pleasant to shoot. Since the weapon does not depend on the power of the cartridge to operate a wide range of rounds can be used. Ammo is available all the way from light wadcutter target rounds to +P+ hollowpoints, comparable to a standard load .357 Magnum. Specialist round like shot shell and miniature flares are also available, Even plastic bullet rounds, powered only by primers (no powder) for indoor practice can be had.
If you wish to use one for personal defense the revolver has the advantages of very simple operation and reliability. A stored, fully loaded revolver may be left for years and still function perfectly, since there are no compressed springs (as in an autoloader).
Another advantage is the ease of changing grip style to suit the individual shooter.
Colt, Smith and Wesson and Ruger make nice examples domestically, Taurus, in Brazil make excellent S&W pattern guns at a very good price. Used guns from these same manufacturers can be a good buy, but stick with a regular dealer, or have the weapon checked by a gunsmith before purchasing.
I'd suggest you find a range with rental guns, and try it. A S&W K frame, four inch with light target loads to start.

HTH
Robert Klaus
 
Pope and Hamradioguy,

Thanks for the tips guys!

I have tried out my brother's 9 mil, and a .357 Taurus. The .357 was a little much for me. I don't think I would be interested in anything with more recoil than the 9 mil. I've been to a couple of ranges near where I live, but they don't do rentals. I'll check with the other ranges though.
 
If faced with bad guy(s) in my home at 3am--I'm reaching for the shotgun rather than a handgun everytime.

For strictly home defense--I think a 20 gauge is a better choice than the 12 gauge. More than enough stopping power but easier to control--esp if a 2nd shot is needed.
 
Ralph said:
If faced with bad guy(s) in my home at 3am--I'm reaching for the shotgun rather than a handgun everytime.

For strictly home defense--I think a 20 gauge is a better choice than the 12 gauge. More than enough stopping power but easier to control--esp if a 2nd shot is needed.
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I don't disagree but I like my 12 gauge. It is a bit cumbersome but it does will underhanded.
 
I currently carry a gun (glock 19) because of the work i do. the training was completely different from all the previous range training I've had in that on the pistol range the gun is not aimed in the first two courses of fire, the pistol is held with what's called a "two handed compulsive grip" which means your holding to pistol tightly with two hands. the first course of fire is at 6 feet with the pistol held tightly against your chest. the second course is at about 15 feet hands fully extend but with out aiming. and the third course is at about 50 feet with aiming.

it may sound strange but in most shootouts there isn't time to aim. the quarterly qualifications i have to do are done with a .38 special, with a little practice anyone can qualify.

I've had to draw a gun twice now to protect my family. a double barrel shotgun the first time and my 9mm the second.

my theory has always been if you have a gun in your hands your gonna take part in any discussion.
 
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