• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

About guns in the home

sackett

Barely Tolerated Lampooneer
S
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Messages
9,529
Location
Detroit
On the panhandling thread, we learn from BPSCG and Mephisto that they keep handguns in their homes for self-defense.

I’m very, extremely, superlatively confident that many other posters here, and not just Americans, keep handguns and perhaps rifles at home for the same purpose.

That saddens and worries me. I live in a gun-filled city – Detroit – and I have a constant low level of anxiety about it.

After 26 years in ‘Troit, I’m not prepared to say that nobody should ever keep a gun handy for self-defense. There are times when a gun is needed.

But rifled weapons? No. Too few laymen have an accurate conception of the real power of modern firearms. You can shoot through several house walls with nothing more than a .38 special; bigger cartridges will do worse. I don’t think I’ll say more about that.

Men and ladies, listen: If you MUST keep an iron in your home, make it a shotgun. A 16 or 20 gauge is plenty. Load it with plain old #7 birdshot; when the range is only a few feet, that’s plenty of devastation. Don’t keep it loaded, just store it (securely) with shells handy; practice loading it fast, perhaps using a speed-loader if it’s a pump or auto. For indoor handling, have a LICENSED gunsmith cut it down to LEGAL length. You can attach a flashlight to it with duct tape (screw the sophistications, I’m talking about real-life real life) and thus be able to illuminate anything suspicious before you shoot. That alone can save a lot of grief.

Please give these thoughts some consideration. The gunsmith’s son, he means you well.
 
Last edited:
Also isn't a handgun/shotgun a significantly more effective weapon at the relatively short ranges that you'll find indoors.
 
Kerberos said:
Also isn't a handgun/shotgun a significantly more effective weapon at the relatively short ranges that you'll find indoors.
Click to expand...

Handgun, no. Shotgun, yes. Remember, when I say “rifled weapon” I mean anything that shoots bullets. That’s why I strongly advise loading small birshot in your home-defense shotgun. You won’t (probably) shoot a neighbor with that – but don’t fire at or from a window, all the same.
 
sackett said:
On the panhandling thread, we learn from BPSCG and Mephisto that they keep handguns in their homes for self-defense.
Click to expand...

Actually, sackett the handgun is for my wife (or in case the threat is a home invasion robbery by multiple invaders with firearms). Believe it or not, my first line of home defense is a machete. I teach a Filipino martial art based on stick and knife fighting and am VERY confident that I can defend my home against one or two burglars without the possibility of shooting a family member through a wall. My family even has a contingency plan for such an event - which is why my wife (who is an excellent shot) keeps the handgun, to protect herself and our son.

sackett said:
I’m very, extremely, superlatively confident that many other posters here, and not just Americans, keep handguns and perhaps rifles at home for the same purpose.

That saddens and worries me. I live in a gun-filled city – Detroit – and I have a constant low level of anxiety about it.

After 26 years in ‘Troit, I’m not prepared to say that nobody should ever keep a gun handy for self-defense. There are times when a gun is needed.

But rifled weapons? No. Too few laymen have an accurate conception of the real power of modern firearms. You can shoot through several house walls with nothing more than a .38 special; bigger cartridges will do worse. I don’t think I’ll say more about that.

Men and ladies, listen: If you MUST keep an iron in your home, make it a shotgun. A 16 or 20 gauge is plenty. Load it with plain old #7 birdshot; when the range is only a few feet, that’s plenty of devastation. Don’t keep it loaded, just store it (securely) with shells handy; practice loading it fast, perhaps using a speed-loader if it’s a pump or auto. For indoor handling, have a LICENSED gunsmith cut it down to LEGAL length. You can attach a flashlight to it with duct tape (screw the sophistications, I’m talking about real-life real life) and thus be able to illuminate anything suspicious before you shoot. That alone can save a lot of grief.
Click to expand...

Good points all! You're also right in saying that most people don't consider that the biggest caliber or the most firepower ISN'T the best thing to consider when planning for home defense. Most people don't realize that even a measley 9mm can EASILY penetrate walls.

sackett said:
Please give these thoughts some consideration. The gunsmith’s son, he means you well.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your concern, sackett. You're absolutely right in asserting that SEVERAL things need to be taken into consideration when buying a firearm for home defense. That's why is always a good idea to discuss beforehand with family members what is expected of them should such an emergency arise. It should be stressed that ALL family members remain in pre-designated spots in such an event. Firearm accidents are prevalent enough without firearm owners shooting family members under the stress of a home invader.

P.S. Also LOCK up your guns! You don't need to give anyone access to your weapons should you surprise them in the middle of a burglary.
 
I own a Ruger 10-22 rifle. But I use it for "plinking," not self-defense.
 
BPSCG said:
??? What do you use for self-defense?
Click to expand...

Personally, I think a 10/22 is perfect for home-defense. Not too much penetration, it puts out a fair volume of reliable (and cheap) fire and there are a TON of aftermarket items that can make any 10/22 look like a very serious threat to a home invader.

Actually, I think a 10/22 in capable hands is much better than a .38 or a .357 (both common rounds for home defense) in shaky hands for home defense.
 
I do agree, that if one really wants a firearm to use for home defense, then the best thing is the sawed off shotgun.

Considering that one would likely use such a weapon:
indoors,
at night,
when one has just come out of a deep sleep,
against a target that is wide awake and crafty,
and where one has to worry about the projectiles possibly missing the target, going through some walls and hitting an innocent person.
Then the sawed-off shot gun is ideal because one just point the thing in the general direction, and you will probably hit it what you want to hit without having to worry about hurting someone else who just happens to be along the projectile path.

However, if one really wants to defend their home, then I think that medium sized dog is much better. Dogs are smart, alert, brave, and very protective of their master.
 
I have a few large-caliber firearms at home, but the primary reason isn't self-defense, it's target shooting. I do not expect to ever need to use them for self-defense, but on the off-chance I do I have a speed loader of these : http://www.magsafeonline.com/index.jsp

I doubt I will ever need to use them, but I figure it would be irresponsible to only have regular Magnum rounds (with all their going-through-the-walls goodness) available if the need arose.
 
BPSCG said:
??? What do you use for self-defense?
Click to expand...
For self-defense I use sharp wit, jujutsu and aikido. For home defense, I use two dogs, a Remington 870 Express in 12 ga., and a Glock 19.

Yes, my Glock is a compact - a "girl gun," if you will. I have small hands. Please don't tease me about them. ;)
 
Joe Random said:
I have a few large-caliber firearms at home, but the primary reason isn't self-defense, it's target shooting. I do not expect to ever need to use them for self-defense, but on the off-chance I do I have a speed loader of these : http://www.magsafeonline.com/index.jsp

I doubt I will ever need to use them, but I figure it would be irresponsible to only have regular Magnum rounds (with all their going-through-the-walls goodness) available if the need arose.
Click to expand...

Are you aware of this, from that company's website?
http://www.magsafeonline.com/magnum_performance.html

The now -famous Strasbourg Tests put MagSafe on the map. To Summarize what nearly everyone already knows, over 600 live French Alpine goats (their bodies are very much like humans) were shot under controlled conditions: no anesthetic, same shot placement form animal to animal, and with blood pressure and heart rate monitors to determine the Incapacitation Time (measure of how long it took a goat to cease functioning after the single shot was delivered).
Click to expand...
 
I don't think there is a perfect self defense firearm, as any particular situation and and person's abilities may vary from moment to moment.

Rifles are generally not the optimal weapon for self defense in many cases for reasons stated. They tend to be too powerful, and too large to maneuver easily. There are exceptions, of course. Pistol caliber carbines are generally smaller, lighter, easier to handle, less powerful while still lethal, and can be fun and inexpensive plinkers.

Buckshot loaded shotguns are probably the best way to stop someone from attacking you, at short ranges. I suspect looking down a a 12ga is probably pretty intimidating, too. But they have downsides, too. Like rifles, they tend to be large, have lots of kick and lots of noise. They need to be aimed, despite the nature of shot dispersal, particularly at short "self defense" distances, ranging from 1 to 10 yds. With a shot pattern at 10 yds anywhere from 5" to 10" in diameter, it's easy to miss if shooting from the hip. And those pistol gripped shotguns, despite looking really cool in the movies and being nice and compact, seem impossible to reliably aim, at least for me.

Pistols are best choice for closed areas, such as inside the home, but demand most care when aiming. Snubbies and subcompacts are probably the hardest to aim. And sometimes, too much gun is worse than not enough. A .357 mag or Harry Callahan's .44 mag are simply too much for many people and might stun a shooter as much as a perpetrator in close quarters with all the noise and flash.

Any firearm can overpenetrate. Even the lowly .22. One of the many reasons firearms are the absolute last line of defense.
 
The best defense is available from a company named U-Haul. GTF out of that neighborhood.

But really, what are the odds of a 'normal' person being shot? I hear of drive by shootings killing 'innocent bystanders' who were standing on a street corner- AT 3 AM! What are the criminal records of the victims? Post mortem drug tests? Gang affiliations?

And 'home invasions'? I figured the gangs knew of some kind of shady business- drug cache amoungst upper middle class coke heads, perhaps? heap o'cash from a drug deal?


I've seldom felt high risk enough to need a loaded gun in my home. Versus having visiting nephews and nieces with curiosities.

But also, #2 and a model 12 is a good compromise. I do keep some handy.
 
casebro, you're blaming the victims. You're assuming that home invasion victims do something to invite the home invasion? You realize that's as grotesque as telling a rape victim that they invited the violation, don't you?
 
ImaginalDisc said:
Are you aware of this, from that company's website?
http://www.magsafeonline.com/magnum_performance.html
Click to expand...

I'd never heard of this before. I bought the ammunition on the reccomendation from a dealer I knew to be reputable and trustworthy. And since I only use my firearms for target shooting (I haven't even hunted since I was about 16) I don't spend much time looking at things like stopping power, etc.

I've just fired up Google, and its clear I have a bit of reading to do. First glance shows opinion divided between real tests and urban legend, but I haven't gotten to the meat of anything. Not sure how I feel about this if it ends up being true.
 
casebro said:
The best defense is available from a company named U-Haul. GTF out of that neighborhood.

But really, what are the odds of a 'normal' person being shot? I hear of drive by shootings killing 'innocent bystanders' who were standing on a street corner- AT 3 AM! What are the criminal records of the victims? Post mortem drug tests? Gang affiliations?

And 'home invasions'? I figured the gangs knew of some kind of shady business- drug cache amoungst upper middle class coke heads, perhaps? heap o'cash from a drug deal?
Click to expand...
This is a very good point and probably the best sense regarding one's own safety. Avoid the situation altogether. If I personally felt threatened in my neighborhood by area crime in general, I'd move. There's no point living in a war zone.

And things like home invasions can easily be beyond one's control even if armed. That's kind of the nature of a successful crime, catching the victim off guard.

It has to be kept in mind that violence in general is pretty rare in the US. Being assaulted or worse with a firearm even moreso. However, these are not necessarily issues where one weighs alternative completely on real threat levels. Most gun owners never use a gun in self defense. Yet the peace of mind afforded by a gun can't really be denied for someone who needs it.
 
Last edited:
Joe Random said:
I'd never heard of this before. I bought the ammunition on the reccomendation from a dealer I knew to be reputable and trustworthy. And since I only use my firearms for target shooting (I haven't even hunted since I was about 16) I don't spend much time looking at things like stopping power, etc.

I've just fired up Google, and its clear I have a bit of reading to do. First glance shows opinion divided between real tests and urban legend, but I haven't gotten to the meat of anything. Not sure how I feel about this if it ends up being true.
Click to expand...

Even if it is an urban leged, they're claiming it's true. It hurts their credability either way. I don't even see why this would be a useful test. They claim to have done extensive testing on richocet behavior on all sorts of different material, and to have shot balastic gel blocks, to gauge its penetrating power.
 
derailment post

I inherited my father's .22 short Astra cub a few months ago and went shooting for the first time since I was a kid. Now I've got the bug. I'm looking into getting another gun, with a little more power, but not too much. Any suggestions? I'm more interested in target shooting than self-defense reasons.

Thanks!
 
I use a mossberg 500 12 guage. The sound of the pump is so distinct, intimidating, and loud that any intruder hearing it will 1) piss themselves and 2) leave via nearest exist. That alone likely means I'll never have to use in practice, but I enjoy using it for practice
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom