"Abortion Doctor" Murdered

SezMe said:
If (IF) he is charged with terrorism:

1) It won't be the only charge. He'll also get a murder rap plus many others
2) The terrorism charge won't be primarily directed at him. It will be a legal means to see if others can be implicated and charged in the crime.

IOW, your focus is on the individual. A terrorism charge would be focused beyond the perp himself.
Click to expand...

Charge them as accessories.
 
dudalb said:
OK, so the only way for Christians to show they are sincere about opposing actions like the Murder of the Doctor is to give up religious beliefs and stop being Christians. Got it.
Like people have never been driven to extreme actions by political motivations.
Click to expand...
.
The murderous pro-lifers are acting with the desire and belief that the witch murderers and heretic murderers operated with.
They can't wait for god to get the bad person, so they step into god's shoes and hasten that person off to the final reward.
If they stopped at "Boy, are you gonna get yours when you die", then there'd be not much of a problem with the condemnations, but when they put themselves as the final arbiters of life and death, then, they've overstepped any bounds that can legitimately be called christian, and are merely murderers.
A "true christian" would hate the sin, but not kill the sinner.
Let god or nature do that, but these crazies have to know that sinner got what was coming to him!
MOF, by these murders, it's the only way there is this side of death itself, to punish the evil-doers.
Can't depend on god to do the right thing, I guess.
 
Randall Terry: "Tiller got what he deserved. Now let's go get some hot wings and beer."





This man is scum.
 
BPSCG said:
Lots of preachers give hell and brimstone sermons on all kinds of sin. If a guy shoots his cheating wife and her boyfriend, are you going to blame the preacher for that, too?
Click to expand...
If the preacher's message was, adulterers should be stoned to death, and the shooter was acting more on a religious belief than on jealousy, then yes.

BPSCG said:
Claim not in evidence. Show me one instance of someone killing an abortionist "because my preacher's sermons pushed me to do it."
Click to expand...
Oh pluuuease!

BPSCG said:
So a preacher who honestly believes that abortion is the moral equivalent of murder should rail against it in a Sunday sermon, but add, "But don't get the wrong idea; Jesus doesn't want you to go out and kill anyone"?
Click to expand...
Actually, that would help. If the abortion is murder rhetoric was tampered with lots of emphasis on, "God will take care of it," and "It is a sin to preempt God's right to take care of it," I do think that is a step in the right direction for these religion promoters.

BPSCG said:
Got a news flash for you. The sane people in his congregation knew that already. The insane ones won't care. Again, to the wicked (and the crazy), everything is pretext.
Click to expand...
New flash! That is my point. The preachers spewing this rhetoric need to recognize there are nutjobs in the audience. And since some of those preachers probably think it's good someone murdered the Dr, then those religion promoters who really do believe 'God is love' should address the hazard of not just religion misusing nutjobs, but also the religion misusing preachers who push the nutjobs to act.
 
rwguinn said:
http://www.kwch.com/Global/story.asp?S=10451609

I guess only "life in the womb" is good.
I will never understand these ******** who do this. I wnat to see "Christians" condemn this ****, but I'm not holding my breath.
Click to expand...
Hi.

I am a Christian.

I condemn it.

There is no possible way killing this doctor is the answer to the disagreement on abortion.

Also, rg, I'll point out that in the first news report I read on this at MSNBC, the article quoted the objection of two different Christian groups, to include Operation Rescue, to this method of dealing with abortion doctors. Comment I recall was "We pray for a change of heart, not the death, for the doctor."

DR
 
King of the Americas said:
They see it as protecting the Herd...kill one if it saves hundreds...

We could eliminate half of all abortions if the Catholic Church said that from this point on, to practice birth control, until all of the world's orphanages were empty...
Click to expand...
The guy was a Lutheran.

The doctor.

What does the Pope have to do with this? The killer wasn't a Catholic, or at least, the suspect I read about wasn't.

King, you confused me on this one.
 
BPSCG said:
Claim not in evidence. Show me one instance of someone killing an abortionist "because my preacher's sermons pushed me to do it."
Click to expand...

I don't know if someone's ever killed an abortionist a doctor because someone's sermon but having a figure in the mass media like Bill O'Reilly rabble rousing like Father Coughlin doesn't help:

http://www.dailykostv.com/w/001803/

Watch this.
 
skeptigirl said:
I suggest you spend a little more time reading the New Testament and reading what Jesus supposedly said.

You can start here with the Skeptic's Annotated Bible's page (King James version, feel free to search other Bible versions on the site) on Cruelty and Violence in the New Testament.
For example:
Click to expand...

I've spent years reading it, and really don't need to anymore thanks, though. Seems to kind of cherry pick and remove context...kind of like the fundie extremists do. If I wanted to delve into how awful you think Jesus is, I'd be in the religion forum...? And if I felt a need to promote religion or anti-religion, I'd probably be there, too. This is about a social issue, and those who use certain tactics to attempt to force their will on society as a whole. Those who join groups aimed toward a particular cause...which the vast majority of people of faith, obviously, do not. Hell, we could just start discussing PETA if you want to, and how whacko crazy they can be, in the complete and total absence of religion. But what would be the point?
 
sugarb said:
The teachings of Christ don't include murder or violence.
Click to expand...
Thanks to the annotated bible, we can test this claim. Let's take just one gospel, Matthew:

Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17

Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30

Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks. 10:14-15

Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36

Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37

=================
In short, sugarb, your claim is just plain wrong because this is violent, deadly stuff. Now, again, tell me how to differentiate the good guys from the bad.
 
skeptigirl said:
Then make your case for why 'Christians' who don't agree with murdering abortion doctors also have no responsibility for people who misconstrue the anti-abortion message.
Click to expand...
For the same reason that, even though you and I are both Americans, I am not responsible to Mexico if you go off to El Paso and start shooting Mexicans as they cross the border.

How hard is this to understand, SG? (And make sure to lead them by a click if they are moving left to right, or there is a high cross wind. :p )

DR
 
Those verses may be in there, but again I speak from direct experience that the message I was taught, strongly, was about love and respect and helping others. Never violence. We never heard of any of those verses, or anything like that. Obviously. And as I said, I lost my faith, and so I think it's all silly anyhow.

But every sermon.. every sunday school session.. every lesson.. they were always about doing good. Helping others. Being there for family. Believing in God in your heart, and accepting Jesus as your savior. Love. Honor.

Nothing negative. Nothing remotely hateful. And I strongly suspect that is the case in most churches, if not the vast majority of churches. That bad stuff is in the bible, but it's not celebrated. And yes they are being great hypocrites by picking and choosing what to follow. But change takes time. Hopefully they get off the anti-homosexual bandwagon stuff soon.

I look forward to a world without religion as much as anyone. I just don't see it happening for a long, long time. I'm not saying that it's prefered to sit back and do nothing about it. But pick your battles and be patient and expect it to take generations (perhaps millenia) before we grow out of these needs. (not at you specifically SezMe, but at people who seem to get so incredibly worked up about it)
 
Last edited:
BPSCG said:
Um, skeptigirl, maybe you should read to the end of your link. If you had, you would have seen what the author of your link tells people they should do.
Get informed, pray, educate, organize, volunteer, donate, even adopt a child.

If there's anything in there that even suggests anyone should kill anyone, could you point it out to me? Thanks.
Click to expand...
You really seem to be having a hard time connecting the dots here.

If a preacher using the language in the sermon I quoted is aware nutjobs might be in the audience, do you really not think that sermon is dangerous?

Where exactly in that sermon does it say, don't kill the murderer?
PROLIFE: Sanctity of Life: Sermon
If we do not stand up and oppose the legalised killing of babies by abortion then the blood of those innocent children will be upon our heads (Ezekiel 33:1-6).

... Be Interceding
“If My people who are called by My Name, will humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.” 2 Chronicles 7:14

Abortion is a tragic national disgrace and we should pray for God to have mercy upon us and to revive His Church to oppose this evil. Pray for the mothers in crisis pregnancies, pray for the counsellors at crisis pregnancy centres, pray for the medical personnel who are faced with life and death choices, pray for those who make the laws, pray for the voters and for the judges. Pray that God’s will may be done, and that lives will be saved.

...“Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter.” Proverbs 24:11

Will you put feet to your faith?
Lives are at stake.

Dr. Peter Hammond
Click to expand...
 
tsig said:
You cannot in stand in the public square and shout "Kill the abortionist" and then walk away with clean hands when it happens,
Click to expand...

Can you tell me who actually did this? If you can show who did, get them charged as accessory before the fact.

DR
 
BTMO said:
I disagree with charging people like this with terrorism. It simply raises their profile, provides some degree of legitimacy (amongst the true believers) for their actions, and makes them a matyr to their cause, rather than what they are - murdering scum.

Charge them with murder, try them for murder and punish them for murder.

Drive the fact home to them and their ilk that what they are is common criminals, nothing more.
Click to expand...
Charge them with terrorism which sends the message these are not believers, these are misguided fanatics.
 
skeptigirl said:
Charge them with terrorism which sends the message these are not believers, these are misguided fanatics.
Click to expand...
I think there is some merit in your position that this event has some elements of a terroristic act. (Note that the doc was shot in both arms in 1993 or so for the same justification by some whacko) That said, I think the FBI needs to be fairly focused on precisely who is to be fingered as an accessory.

Anyone who is against abortion isn't the answer.

My wife is against abortion. She goes to a rosary once a month, or so, with here sisters in faith, and they hold a silent vigil and pray and do rosaries in endless succession, hoping for the Blessed Virgin to change the hearts of those who perform abortions. Or Jesus to save those most in need of mercy from the fires of hell. Or something. Or all of that.

So far their prayers have not worked, but they keep on trying.

You want the FBI to charge my wife as an accessory?

I won't say I encourage it, I don't think it's a good use of her time, but I don't argue with her over it. Plus, it leaves me free to do as I please for a few hours on a weekend morning, so it's all good.

DR
 
Last edited:
SezMe said:
Thanks to the annotated bible, we can test this claim. Let's take just one gospel, Matthew:

Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17

Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30

Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks. 10:14-15

Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36

Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37

=================
In short, sugarb, your claim is just plain wrong because this is violent, deadly stuff. Now, again, tell me how to differentiate the good guys from the bad.
Click to expand...


*sigh* What would be the point here of getting into discussions about the old laws and the fulfillment of the old laws leading to the new covenant. There would BE no point, as this is NOT, supposedly, about religion. It is about a SOCIAL issue. You are going to believe what YOU want to believe, I'm going to believe what I believe, EVERYONE is going to believe WHATEVER they want to believe--with regards to faith. BUT...THIS is about a doctor being murdered because of a law that some people, including those of no faith, think is barbaric.

You interpret things how you wish to interpret them. If you see violence and boogeymen around every corner, that's peachy, and I'm sorry for you. But I do not, and although I am not a practicing believer anymore, there is NOTHING in my religious upbringing that causes me to want to murder anyone. Mean old Jesus said to love our enemies. What a jerk! But fine, if you think that means go kill everyone, okay, whatever. It has NOTHING to do with this particular topic.

Is that really so hard? Let's see...a murdering atheists--Pol Pot. You uphold Pol Pot, then, I guess. Right? Do you SEE how stupid this is?

Probably not
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom