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AA77 FDR Data, Explained

Let's not forget, all of CIT's witnesses also say the plane hit the building.

I did say,"All witnesses in position to observe it occur " which contain the subset of most of the CiT witnesses (did Paik see impact?). However, it certainly cannot be stated too many times that those witnesses who the CiT did interview, and who were in a position to render a first hand account of an impact, stated that the plane hit the building.

Turcois for eg. did not see impact. He saw a plane desend below his line of sight beyond the highway and then saw the fireball without ever seeing the aircraft appear again. Given that in order for the fireball to have 'hidden' a 'flyover' from Turcois it would have to occur several hundred feet in front of the building, Turcois correctly interprets his experience as the aircraft hittin g the building. Boger on the other hand clearly states that he saw impact, then ducked. The CiT then twist this into having Boger duck first, while the aircraft is still several hundred feet away and only 'hear' impact.

So with these two witnesses they first twist Turcois' statement and say that he was stating that the fireball hid his view of the aircraft (which he never did say, and which they asked no clarification of), and they ignore Boger's timeline and insert their own (duck prior to impact). Did they tell Boger that they were going to call him a coward? nah!

Paik clearly indicates a flight path with his arms that is consistent with the so-called 'official' flight path but draws a path over the Annex. Rather than ask for clarification the CiT ignores his first hand description in favour of the drawing solely because it satifies the CiT's own agenda.

Morin states that the plane was parallel to the Annex which the CiT interprets as travelling northward because the building is constructed of many sections when in fact a typical person would have ionterpreted it to mean in the same direction that Columbia Pike runs alongside the building. The CiT does not ask for clarification because they prefer to insert a meaning that satifies their own agenda. Morin clearly states that he could see the vertical stabilizer all the way in and that the plane hit the building.

The CiT ignores that Lagasse states he saw the lamp posts get hit when they first saw him. Only after alienating Lagasse does he slough them off and say he didn't see anything do they really like his statements.

Poor Lloyd England agreed to speak with them, showed them his busted cab. They stole his cab light and now accuse him of being an 'agent' solely because his story completely puts the CiT fallacy to rest.

It is very typical of the CiT to twist a statement to suit their own agenda, ignore points that do not agree with their agenda and brand as faked, statements that completely and utterly destroy their own fable.

The PfT go even further in calling for the summary execution of persons who support the so called OCT, after the revolution. Balsamo states he would happily put a bullet in their heads.
 
Hey, 911files, do they pay you well for being a shill? I get 10,000 Ameros a month for lying to psychos like Ace Baker about seeing a plane fly into the WTC.
 
Hey, 911files, do they pay you well for being a shill? I get 10,000 Ameros a month for lying to psychos like Ace Baker about seeing a plane fly into the WTC.

They are supposed to pay me for this? I'll have to ask my CIA controller about that one.
 
They are supposed to pay me for this? I'll have to ask my CIA controller about that one.

Why do they think "being paid" is an insult?

They are selling lies on DVD, or real stupid analysis. Do they know they are wrong and selling dumb ideas to make money, or are they terminally stupid on 9/11 issues.

They have no clue when they see your work.

They have no clue about the FDR, confirms there are no experts at p4t or CIT, or among their massive group of followers, many members (5) who are posting right now on p4t forum.

 
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I was reading Caustic Logic's blogspot. He said John Farmer was a North side supporter. Did I miss something, did CL get something wrong, or were you just f'ing with them?
 
No, CL was just having a hard time putting me into a box. When I first started my research project (establishing the flight path of AAL77) in 2006, I did not know the first thing about flight data recorders or how a lot of the physics parameters interacted. I sought out help from the boys at P4T and was unfortunately fed some bad information. Realizing the error of my ways, I sought out the best FDR guys I could find and started talking to the TN Air Guard pilots here who fly C5A’s and some of the Fed Ex folks.

There are a number of anomalies in the FDR data, but quite frankly only the NTSB and FBI have the goods to resolve those issues with (i.e. ending prematurely, abnormal lateral acceleration shift, etc). However, I fully explored the P4T “hypothesis” and found it lacking. That became a bone of contention and I was dropped from among their ranks :(

So, I am a P4T reject who remains open to ANY evidence of a NoC path and fly-over, but at this time find the available evidence wanting.
 
Cool Cool. You're the one that tipped CL off about 77's shadow. I haven't checked his trigonometry yet, but so far everything checks out okay. Just one more nail in the coffin, eh?

Citgo_Shadow_labeled.jpg


Shadow_Visible_area.jpg
 
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Yes, I did some math modeling back in the day based on the FDR data that predicted there was an 80% probability that a shadow cast by the plane should be visible on that particular camera (based on multiplexer sequencing and frame rate). I could not find it in the poor quality YouTube version so Scott Bingham was kind enough to send me the VCR tape sent to him by the FBI. I had a professional firm here in Memphis produce a quality DVD version of it and the tape, sending Scott's copy back to him.

Well, needless to say, the first time I watched the VCR tape; there was the shadow exactly where modeling said it should be. It served me well to verify that I was interpreting the FDR position data correctly. That unfortunately did not set well with some folks.
 
Cool Cool. You're the one that tipped CL off about 77's shadow.

I also did a review of CIT's original PentaCon movie by comparing Turcios's account to his actions on the same camera. Craig got really upset because I pointed out that Turcios was back at the pump to the right, not to the far left as he stated. He also ran like a scared jack-rabbit into the service station, not up the hill to get a better view. Oh well, I just can't win sometimes.
 
Yes, I did some math modeling back in the day based on the FDR data that predicted there was an 80% probability that a shadow cast by the plane should be visible on that particular camera (based on multiplexer sequencing and frame rate). I could not find it in the poor quality YouTube version so Scott Bingham was kind enough to send me the VCR tape sent to him by the FBI. I had a professional firm here in Memphis produce a quality DVD version of it and the tape, sending Scott's copy back to him.

Well, needless to say, the first time I watched the VCR tape; there was the shadow exactly where modeling said it should be. It served me well to verify that I was interpreting the FDR position data correctly. That unfortunately did not set well with some folks.

what does that shadow tell us about the altitude of the plane the moment it passed there? the only online topographic map of that area I was able to find is unclear and cluttered. but I do know that the sun was at 20 Degrees altitude and 145 degrees east of north
 
Oh my, that was two years ago and I have been spending past year looking at things back along the flight path.

CT's Shadow Analysis

I will deter to CT's analysis which puts the plane at around 115 feet agl. If I recall correctly, I worked with a range of 100 - 150 feet agl. As you know, the altitude and distance from shadow on the ground are related to one another and there are multiple solutions to the problem, depending on exactly what point above the ground the plane passed over. In other words, if you know the altitude, you can derive the distance, and vice versa. I am currently awaiting confirmation of another known fixed altitude and location for the plane. If that pans out, I should soon be able to answer that question with specificity.

According to the NOAA site, solar azimuth was 113 degrees, elevation 32 degrees.
 
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what does that shadow tell us about the altitude of the plane the moment it passed there? the only online topographic map of that area I was able to find is unclear and cluttered. but I do know that the sun was at 20 Degrees altitude and 145 degrees east of north

AW, try one or more of these choices for online Topo Maps.

http://www.topozone.com/

or

http://terraserver-usa.com/

I use a front end called USA Photomaps to download the Terraserver maps. It's better than trying to use those small online screens. Although you do have to download map segments to your HD it is quite fast.
 
Oh my, that was two years ago and I have been spending past year looking at things back along the flight path.

CT's Shadow Analysis

I will deter to CT's analysis which puts the plane at around 115 feet agl. If I recall correctly, I worked with a range of 100 - 150 feet agl. As you know, the altitude and distance from shadow on the ground are related to one another and there are multiple solutions to the problem, depending on exactly what point above the ground the plane passed over. In other words, if you know the altitude, you can derive the distance, and vice versa. I am currently awaiting confirmation of another known fixed altitude and location for the plane. If that pans out, I should soon be able to answer that question with specificity.

According to the NOAA site, solar azimuth was 113 degrees, elevation 32 degrees.


yes i entered an incorrect value on the form, im using http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/AltAz.php

09:37 42.0 126.4
 
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I don't know if this has been discussed, but the Citgo footage shows the light poles getting hit.

CITGO_CLIP.gif
 
Okay, I'll make this easy. The plane's shadow is picked up at 9:40:35. This flash is at 9:40:38. That is 3 seconds and I assure you that the plane was well past the poles by this time. Not an issue I care to debate, but it is consistent with sunlight reflecting off some portion of the car as it pulls off.

I am assuming of course it is the flash of light you are noting. Again, CL wanted to argue the point for months, so I will refer you to one of his posts.

CL's Flash Post
 
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[latex]$$ \frac{\frac{1}{x}+\frac{1}{y}}{y-z} $$[/latex]

I just found out I can post my equations without having to copy/paste into an image file. So now I can just copy/paste my stuff from Scientific Workplace straight into a post. I am SO excited....I love you JREF :wide-eyed
 
There are two flashes (upper right screen, where the blur is.) At 9:40:37, when the loop starts you see a minor flash. A second to 1.5 seconds later, you see the big flash (the plane hitting the building). My guess is that the first minor flash is the plane hitting the light poles. This "corroborates" what Morin said.


As the aircraft approached the Pentagon, I saw a minor flash.

77's shadow is at 9:40:35, before the loop starts.
 
I am assuming of course it is the flash of light you are noting. Again, CL wanted to argue the point for months, so I will refer you to one of his posts.

I am noting the small flash at 9:40:37. Not the big one at 9:40:38 (-and a halfish), over a second later. 77 was going about 714 ft/s so that would put the plane around 1000' ft out, making it a good candidate for the small flash at :37 being the light poles getting struck. I'll break it down by the seconds.

9:40:35 - 77's shadow (not shown in this loop)
9:40:37 - small flash, possibly light poles getting struck.
9:40:38 - big flash, 77 hitting pentagon.
 
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