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AA77 FDR Data, Explained

No. That is YOUR problem. The fact they these witnesses are all disconnected
and STILL magically, somehow drew the same flight path is AMAZING.

Understand the odds and improbability of this.

D'Rok. Your answer has been posted within a page, or two prior to your
reply.

dtugg: Are you going to change your mind when the story hits the news?

:rolleyes:

Don't worry, we're working on getting the story out everyday. Keep
looking for the radio interviews and public speaking events as well.
CIT witnesses all point to the "official flight path"; you ignore that so you can fail to present your stuff on the FDR?

When will you present evidence for your lie of 77 not impacting the Pentagon, a kinetic energy event only contested by paranoid government hating terrorist apologist known as p4t and their investigative arm CIT. How can rational pilots embrace the dirt dumb ideas of CIT? What is wrong with Balsamo and his massive group of pilots?

Where is your FDR stuff? Your witnesses all support the "official flight path", CIT lack any cognitive skills to analysis witness statements, as I recall on CIT video witnesses pointing to the SOUTH!

7 years; p4t continue to spew stupid ideas. Can't wait for the next display of stupid in an interview or some speaking event. It is refreshing to see the pursuit of stupid ideas at p4t does not change.

You are a skilled technician, how do these guys at p4t and CIT with idiotic ideas fool you?
 
...
Until then, he has zero FDR experience and his theory no longer makes
sense based on these points:
...

You have zero experience in FDRs. Is this why your ideas on this subject have failed?
Why don't you know or understand the resolution DME is stored at in the FDR?
 
Sorry D'rok, I thought I hit reply, but the site is too slow. Here it is again:




I'll wait for him to back up his statements with his real name instead of
a faceless account.

Until then, he has zero FDR experience and his theory no longer makes
sense based on these points:

- a transient on a data line, or address line cannot issue an erase
process

- EEPROM requires DC voltage over a sustained duration to reset
gates, as opposed to a few milliseconds of noise

- The gates require a minimum DC voltage to reset. As power decays
this voltage is no longer sufficient. Gates cannot be reset by impact
force, it's done electrically.

- The firmware determines which address lines are enabled and when
the write/erase occurs. It is an involved and complex set of instructions -
not a single 'switch' feature.

Thanks. I don't have the expertise to assess this, but maybe the knowledgeable forumites can take a look. It would make for a better thread than what this is descending into.
 
No. That is YOUR problem. The fact they these witnesses are all disconnected
and STILL magically, somehow drew the same flight path is AMAZING.

Understand the odds and improbability of this.

D'Rok. Your answer has been posted within a page, or two prior to your
reply.

dtugg: Are you going to change your mind when the story hits the news?

:rolleyes:

Don't worry, we're working on getting the story out everyday. Keep
looking for the radio interviews and public speaking events as well.
But they don't agree (except that the plane hit the building). This is the part you choose to ignore. Can you show me how all of your paths agree for the whole path (remember "big picture" your words), (except for the ending we all know)?
 
Thanks. I don't have the expertise to assess this, but maybe the knowledgeable forumites can take a look. It would make for a better thread than what this is descending into.

Read back the last... 20 pages or so... We've already addressed all of these issues. They aren't relevant. Turbofan continues to discuss only normal FDR operation and appears incapable of understanding the various physical damage mechanisms that can also cause loss or corruption of data. Until he understands them, he cannot address them, and without addressing them he cannot participate in the discussion.

This is why MacGyver2000 stopped responding to him, and myself as well. This discussion is finished unless Turbofan can bring something that is new, relevant, and correct. His latest comments are neither new nor relevant.
 
Read back the last... 20 pages or so... We've already addressed all of these issues. They aren't relevant. Turbofan continues to discuss only normal FDR operation and appears incapable of understanding the various physical damage mechanisms that can also cause loss or corruption of data. Until he understands them, he cannot address them, and without addressing them he cannot participate in the discussion.

This is why MacGyver2000 stopped responding to him, and myself as well. This discussion is finished unless Turbofan can bring something that is new, relevant, and correct. His latest comments are neither new nor relevant.

I figured as much. Thanks for the confirmation.
 
Read back the last... 20 pages or so... We've already addressed all of these issues. They aren't relevant. Turbofan continues to discuss only normal FDR operation and appears incapable of understanding the various physical damage mechanisms that can also cause loss or corruption of data. Until he understands them, he cannot address them, and without addressing them he cannot participate in the discussion.

This is why MacGyver2000 stopped responding to him, and myself as well. This discussion is finished unless Turbofan can bring something that is new, relevant, and correct. His latest comments are neither new nor relevant.

MacGyver is NOT an FDR specialist/expert. He apparently is not aware
of the transient supression circuitry used in these devices.

Also due to the points I briefly listed, a transient cannot enable an erase
procedure.

More to the point, this all does not matter as the FDR data stored conflicts
with the story and makes the poles strikes impossible.

Also do recall, the NTSB found no such examples of erasure, or missing
seconds.

Your theories again are weak.
 
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No. That is YOUR problem. The fact they these witnesses are all disconnected
and STILL magically, somehow drew the same flight path is AMAZING.
Oh, I must be confused because you mistakingly drew 9 different flight paths for your 13 witnesses.

Can you please provide a new illustration showing the One True Flight Path all 13 of your witnesses agree to?
 
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MacGyver is NOT an FDR specialist/expert. He apparently is not aware
of the transient supression circuitry used in these devices.

Also due to the points I briefly listed, a transient cannot enable an erase
procedure.

More to the point, this all does not matter as the FDR data stored conflicts
with the story and makes the poles strikes impossible.

Also do recall, the NTSB found no such examples of erasure, or missing
seconds.

Your theories again are weak.
You are not aware FDR have lost data for many reasons, you are not a FDR expert, and you do not have access to FDR experts.

You need to bring up some new stuff instead of proving your are not a FDR expert, and not a single FDR expert agrees with you. Too bad p4t lack FDR expertise. They have implications of lies and not a theory on anything about 9/11.
We do not offer theory (p4t web site)
They offer hearsay, lies and fantasy. Does this means they have no theory or ideas on the FDR? They don't by their own words.


If you are a p4t member, you have no theory.
 
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All I see from you guys is a bunch of theories, twisting and lies.

Get off your butt and head down to Arlington to interview Lagasse and the
other 12 witnesses who drew similar flight paths.

No need to. The "official" flight path has already been "corroborated."

Awmap.png
 
No. That is YOUR problem. The fact they these witnesses are all disconnected
and STILL magically, somehow drew the same flight path is AMAZING.

Understand the odds and improbability of this.

D'Rok. Your answer has been posted within a page, or two prior to your
reply.

dtugg: Are you going to change your mind when the story hits the news?

:rolleyes:

Don't worry, we're working on getting the story out everyday. Keep
looking for the radio interviews and public speaking events as well.

Oh yeah Turbo... the word is being spread alright:

Craig Ranke said:
For anyone who might be interested I'll be discussing the details of this presentation tomorrow, Friday the 5th, on Radio Free Oklahoma W/Chris Emery, Friday at 4:30 Pacific time.

Listen live and call in!

www.ruleoflawradio.com

Chris Emery?!!!! Another loon with a microphone that may as well not even be plugged in.

:dl:
 
No. That is YOUR problem. The fact they these witnesses are all disconnected
and STILL magically, somehow drew the same flight path is AMAZING.

They simply do not all have the same flight path. they all say north of the Citgo but hell, a plane flying over my house is also north of the Citgo.

Where are the other interviews that craig did which he won't release? Do any of them put the plane where the lamp post damage puts it? How about the people who do, or the people who witnessed it actually hit the building. How can you possibly complain about a "big picture" when you are ignoring the picture with the detail all witnesses agree on? The one very definitive intersection of all flight paths. The single most awe creating detail, the single most memorable detail, the single most important detail. The plane hit the building!!!



Understand the odds and improbability of this.

Of what? That people's memories are affected by how quickly an event occurs and how emotional a particular detail would be?
In that case the odds of divergent descriptions of the flight path are quite good, thus while most put it on a straight path from the top of the hill on Columbia Pike and into the building, some describe it elsewhere. I already pointed out that if several of the paths on your diagram were true then neither Morin or Paik could ever have seen the plane. Are you then willing to dismiss those paths and the statments the witnesses gave? Or will you dump Morin and Paik?
Does everyone who states the plane was along the path that the downed poles shows get branded a liar, mistaken, or Craig's favorite, an agent?
The single most emotional detail and the single most memorable one would be the impact and given that that is where the flight path ends the witnesses would have kept their sight on that particular spot the longest and thus this is the most convergent point in all witness statements.

Thus the odds favor the detail of impact being correct and the odds of divergent descriptions of the path the plane took to get to that point.

What are the odds that a large loud and fast aircraft flies over a building low and no one sees it occur? What are the odds that 'agents' scurrying about with highway lamp posts are also seen by no one? What are the odds of an explosion occuring at the Pentagon wall would move a large gen-set towards the wall?

I also note that you have no comment on the video taped fact that Craig led Turcois to change his description of the flight path not once, not twice but at least three times.

dtugg: Are you going to change your mind when the story hits the news?

I believe that the point was that it hit the news and then be commented upon by recognized experts in the feild. However there is also the point that PfT has utterly failed to compile a consise technical description of how they arrive at the conclusion that the FDR data illustrates a grossly different path than that of the pattern of downed lamp posts.






I'll wait for him to back up his statements with his real name instead of
a faceless account.
Until then, he has zero FDR experience and his theory no longer makes
sense based on these points:

ah yes the old, you-are-not-an-expert-unless-we-know-your-name ploy.

I remind you that YOU contacted him in the first place touting him as an expert. now that he has repeatedly pointed out that you misunderstand and or misrepresent the statements that he has made and steadfastly maintained that data can be lost/corrupted you are getting peeved. If you do not consider him an expert why do you continue to try to re-engage him? Why not compile a full consise technical paper on this matter and submit it to organizations with access to recognized experts? You are concentrating on internet personae who you maintain are not expert enough to make any comment of the matter, why?



- a transient on a data line, or address line cannot issue an erase
process

Addressed in previous posts.

- EEPROM requires DC voltage over a sustained duration to reset
gates, as opposed to a few milliseconds of noise

,,, and???

- The gates require a minimum DC voltage to reset. As power decays
this voltage is no longer sufficient. Gates cannot be reset by impact
force, it's done electrically.


You really do not understand that the conditions present at this point in time are by no means at all neccessarily 'normal' do you?

- The firmware determines which address lines are enabled and when
the write/erase occurs. It is an involved and complex set of instructions -
not a single 'switch' feature.

see last comment
 
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Understand the odds and improbability of this.

The odds of improbability?

So what exactly are the odds, of probability, of somebody staging a plane crash into the pentagon in broad daylight and nobody noticing?

What exactly are the odds of probability of a group of black operatives planting explosives inside the Pentagon, unnoticed, and detonating then at the precise moment a plane flies over head without being noticed?

What exactly are the odds of probability of somebody, anybody, planting pre damaged lamp posts on a highway, and after a massive explosion has taken place in adjacent building and nobody noticing?

What exactly are the odds of probability of finding a ruthless group of individuals that could not only be signed up to mass murder but maintain their silence as they planted plane parts, body parts and personnel effects of fellow Americas inside the fake plane crash site and then maintaining thier silence forever.

What exactly are the odds of probability of flying a plane over the Pentagon, in broadaylight and hoping that nobody would not only notice but would not capture it on camera or video camera?

What exactly are the odds of probability of somebody inside the USG of coming up with an idea to fake a plane flight into the Pentagon, in broad day light and getting it sanctioned?

What exactly are the odds of probability of staging such an event in broad daylight; in full view of anybody that may be present and hoping that nobody would notice?

What exactly are the odds of probability of hoping that nobody from inside nor anybody who responded would notice that the plane had actually flown over the Pentagon and the damage was actually caused by pre planted explosives?

What exactly are the odds of probability staging such an event, that realistically had no bearing on world events and hoping to get away with it?

What exactly are the odds of probability of such a group who hoped to fool the entire planet failing to notice they put the wrong data on the planted black box?

What exactly are the odds of probability of such a determined group of ruthless mass murderers relying on a taxi driver to back their dastardly plan?

What exactly are the odds of anybody, and I mean anybody, coming up with such an insane idea and not being laughed out of office?

What exactly are the odds of probability of the most ridiculous hoax in the history of ridiculous hoaxes being carried out and going unnoticed by anybody other that self styled Bush hating, investigators who would not acknowledge the stupidly of their claims even it was pointed out to them.repeatedly?


Go for it TF; explain the odds of improbability to us all.
 
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The odds of improbability?

So what exactly are the odds, of probability, of somebody staging a plane crash into the pentagon in broad daylight and nobody noticing?

What exactly are the odds of probability of a group of black operatives planting explosives inside the Pentagon, unnoticed, and detonating then at the precise moment a plane flies over head without being noticed?

What exactly are the odds of probability of somebody, anybody, planting pre damaged lamp posts on a highway, and after a massive explosion has taken place in adjacent building and nobody noticing?

What exactly are the odds of probability of finding a ruthless group of individuals that could not only be signed up to mass murder but maintain their silence as they planted plane parts, body parts and personnel effects of fellow Americas inside the fake plane crash site and then maintaining thier silence forever.

What exactly are the odds of probability of flying a plane over the Pentagon, in broadaylight and hoping that nobody would not only notice but would not capture it on camera or video camera?

What exactly are the odds of probability of somebody inside the USG of coming up with an idea to fake a plane flight into the Pentagon, in broad day light and getting it sanctioned?

What exactly are the odds of probability of staging such an event in broad daylight; in full view of anybody that may be present and hoping that nobody would notice?

What exactly are the odds of probability of hoping that nobody from inside nor anybody who responded would notice that the plane had actually flown over the Pentagon and the damage was actually caused by pre planted explosives?

What exactly are the odds of probability staging such an event, that realistically had no bearing on world events and hoping to get away with it?

What exactly are the odds of probability of such a group who hoped to fool the entire planet failing to notice they put the wrong data on the planted black box?

What exactly are the odds of probability of such a determined group of ruthless mass murderers relying on a taxi driver to back their dastardly plan?

What exactly are the odds of anybody, and I mean anybody, coming up with such an insane idea and not being laughed out of office?

What exactly are the odds of probability of the most ridiculous hoax in the history of ridiculous hoaxes being carried out and going unnoticed by anybody other that self styled Bush hating, investigators who would not acknowledge the stupidly of their claims even it was pointed out to them.repeatedly?

Ouch
 
The odds of improbability?

What exactly are the odds of probability of finding a ruthless group of individuals that could not only be signed up to mass murder but maintain their silence as they planted plane parts, body parts and personnel effects of fellow Americas inside the fake plane crash site and then maintaining thier silence forever.

Go for it TF; explain the odds of improbability to us all.

This above point stands out. what are the odds of probability such an operative would remain silent for seven years? Knowing a government that allegedly had no problem killing almost 3000 of its own citizens would have no problem at all cleaning up all the loose ends making the operatives disappear? Their life would depend on them speaking out and going public.
 
Some posts split to AAH.

Keep the thread on topic (Flight 77 FDR) and do not indulge in personalised responses
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Gaspode
 
Some posts split to AAH.

Keep the thread on topic (Flight 77 FDR) and do not indulge in personalised responses
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Gaspode
Many of those moved to AAH were on topic and germane to the discussion in this thread. I'm really at a loss to see why they were moved.

Is it not allowed to question the qualifications of the Pilots for Truth?

Is it not allowed to question their motives?

Is it not allowed to question their methods?

Perhaps this section of the forum should be shut down entirely if no actual discussion of 9/11 conspiracy theories will be allowed.
 
Many of those moved to AAH were on topic and germane to the discussion in this thread. I'm really at a loss to see why they were moved.

Is it not allowed to question the qualifications of the Pilots for Truth?

Is it not allowed to question their motives?

Is it not allowed to question their methods?

Perhaps this section of the forum should be shut down entirely if no actual discussion of 9/11 conspiracy theories will be allowed.

And I'm left to wonder, why wasn't the thread cleaning started from this post forward?
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4244285&postcount=3015

or are we just getting time to clean out our in boxes?


The flight data was explained 30 odd pages ago.
 
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Here's a diagram of 13 witness accounts all with similar flight paths. What
are the odds?

From an investigatory standpoint, the odds are very good when the 'interviewers' set out to skew the results from the outset by asking the witnesses to draw the flightpath on a diagram that the 'interviewers' have (conveniently) pre-labelled with the location of the fireball.

This is a dishonest and leading tactic, designed by the Crackpot Investigoogle Team members to try to manufacture 'consistent' evidence when it doesn't actually exist. Left to their own devices without the pre-labelled diagram to draw the flightpath on, the witnesses would, no doubt, have drawn many different paths that did not end in the same location.
 

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