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AA77 FDR Data, Explained

We don't JUST rely on witness testimony. The witness testimony supports
all other research.

What real evidence? Are you guys on meds?


No you don't. All of your arguments are based on eywtienss testimony. That's it. Sure you're not on Meds? And remember you're also cherry picking the eyewitness testimony too (and yet somehow can't understand why no one takes you guys seriously).

All you have is an official BS story told by the government.

That is backed by REAL data, reliable data, facts, hard evidence, 1000s of experts, exhaustive investigation, and science.

You don't have an investigation

If by investigation you mean a witch hunt like PFT, you are correct.

You don't have any video showing AA77.

Nor do we need to. Do you have a video of whatever you claim happened? I didn't think so.

Impact damage is not consistent with a 757-200

It is 100% consistent. Stop lying.


Your own government agencies conflict

No, it does not.

The FDR data conflicts

No it does not.

You lie about Lagasse - I just prove you wrong with video testimony

No I don't and no you didn't. His claim of the plane hitting the building that you dismiss is also very interesting. So not only do you rely on unreliable sources, but cherry pick them at that.
You can't explain light poles entering the cab due to the angle,
distance and speed.

Yes we can and have, repeatedly.
Lloyd has been exposed

There's nothing to expose him for.

How much more BS do you need to swallow before you wake up?

You mean how much more of your nonsense do we have to listen to before we become fellow crackpots? I don't think it's ever going to happen. Being honest and using real science and evidence and investigative skills will prevent that from happening. Why do you think your arguments are limited to online forums where anyone who wants to can say anything they want? Why do you think that you can't get anyone to listen to you but people who have no choice?

Maybe PFT can team up with the Flat Earth Society.
 
All I see from you guys is a bunch of theories, twisting and lies.

Get off your butt and head down to Arlington to interview Lagasse and the
other 12 witnesses who drew similar flight paths.

Until then, you have NOTHING...just lies and spin of the documented
video testimony.

Nice try.
 
All I see from you guys is a bunch of theories, twisting and lies.

Get off your butt and head down to Arlington to interview Lagasse and the
other 12 witnesses who drew similar flight paths.

Until then, you have NOTHING...just lies and spin of the documented
video testimony.

Nice try.

No, we have every single CIT witness stating that the plane hit the Pentagon and zero saying it was a flyover. That single fact puts your whole theory in doubt, since you are relying on these witnesses. Couple that with all of the real evidence that you handwave away, and you are the one with nothing.
 
Turbofan: If you have this great new analysis that invalidates MacGyver's expertise, let's hear it. Put your cards and the table and stop this pointless bickering.
 
I'm sorry, let me type slower so more of you can understand:

Government conflicting data: NTSB and FAA support north side

13 witness accounts on video supporting north side

FDR data conflicts with OGCT

Light pole through cab story BS

Gee, what do you have? NOTHING. Just twisting of video testimony.

Feel free to re-interview all the witnesses and call up the NTSB/FAA
to ask how 15 points of data and visual flght path support all agree.


P.S. you guys might want to sell more aprons to buy a faster server.
 
All I see from you guys is a bunch of theories, twisting and lies.

Get off your butt and head down to Arlington to interview Lagasse and the
other 12 witnesses who drew similar flight paths.

Until then, you have NOTHING...just lies and spin of the documented
video testimony.

Nice try.
Turbofan:
Please answer this honestly. Wouldn't it be more accurate (and honest) to state on your web sites, "Although all of our witnesses claim the plane hit the building we don't believe so". You are actually a "truther" right? Can you explain this inconsistency?
 
Here's a diagram of 13 witness accounts all with similar flight paths. What
are the odds?

AllGroupsMap3.jpg
The odds you post 13 witness paths that are impossible? Oops, all the paths are impossible.

I like the 35 G one; how did a 757 get 35 G wings? (sad, there is one with a turn so sharp and short it is hard to see, and over 50 Gs; how can you publish trash?>)

CIT and p4t have no clue with G force calculations and FDRs. Why are they always wrong?

Don’t expect much from the self-superior p4t pilots who can't hit the largest buildings in the world in the safety of a simulator and brag about it. So far their inability to expose the vast 9/11 conspiracy has yielded examples of the worse practical application of physics ever. Not a single FDR fact to support their fantasies they can't fully explain spurn by paranoia against their government and government agencies. Did the FAA bust these guys for messing up as pilots?

I don't understand how any FDR have missing, lost, corrupt data using your messed up logic on FDRs! But they do! Better explain why some FDR lost data, and 77 can't. The p4t physics killing pilots can't, and you can't. It is comical as you think you are schooling electrical engineers and experts in electronics as you expose your lack of knowledge on the FDR. I enjoy your efforts but wonder how you can be mislead so easily; how did this happen? Why do you guys not take your ideas to professors, experts, and people who really work on these systems. It is easy to see p4t and CIT do not use evidence.

Not one person saw the plane on the NoC, they all saw 77 on the "official flight path" because not one of them saw the plane behind them as they faced the "official flight path" and saw the plane to the SOUTH of them. Not one person saw the plane to the north, they point to the "official flight path" in the CIT video. CIT are the dumbest investigators as they publish a video showing witnesses point to the "official flight path". Comedy video. What do witnesses who have impossible paths have to do with FDRs?
 
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I'm sorry, let me type slower so more of you can understand:

Government conflicting data: NTSB and FAA support north side

13 witness accounts on video supporting north side

FDR data conflicts with OGCT

Light pole through cab story BS

Gee, what do you have? NOTHING. Just twisting of video testimony.

Feel free to re-interview all the witnesses and call up the NTSB/FAA
to ask how 15 points of data and visual flght path support all agree.

What freakin' part of ALL OF YOUR WITNESSES SAW THE PLANE HIT THE BUILDING don't you understand?
 
nicepants said:
The only point that EVERY path agrees on is the plane impacting the pentagon.
You forget easily. Remember, "BIG PICTURE"

Big picture or not, these eyewitnesses present a serious problem for CIT's theory.

What hit the lights poles Nicepants? Explain it.

The witnesses in CIT's videos explained this....it was the plane.

nicepants said:
Does it bother you in the least that CIT has been unable to provide the calculations to prove that their made-up "flyover" theory is even aerodynamically possible?
YOu need to get up to speed, or stop spreading the lies.

No calculations on that page you linked to either.

I'm up-to-speed on CIT's "research". The fact that their theory contradicts every eyewitness they present is reason enough to reject their findings. Why doesn't this fact bother you?
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elKov_UZDQE&feature=PlayList&p=BE6770F6AF5D4E8C&index=8

Stop twisting witness testimony.

Watch the video. No coaching whatsoever.

no coaching??? I saw Turcois first say the plane was just the other side(south) of the canopy, then at Craig's suggestion that it was over the canopy Turcois aquiesces which Craig then characterises as the starboard wing over the canopy and eventualy has the plane over the tree to the north of the canopy. That is basically Craig's testimony rather than Turcois', except for Tucois' first characterization of the plane being to the south of his position. Craig led him on, pure and simple.

No twisting??? Turcois states that he could no longer see the plane because it was "still obstructed". By what? Craig does not bother to ask and only later characterises this as meaning that Turcois could not see the plane because it was behind the fireball. This des[ite the fact that Tucois states that the plane hit the Pentagon. If he could not see the plane and believes it hit the Pentagon then how does he arrive at that conclusion? Because the plane went below his line of sight past the highway and never emerged again.

In order for Craig to be correct then the fireball would have to occur between Turcois and the plane and, obviously, some distance in front of the Pentagon. There isn't mush real estate there for that senario neither is there any evidence of a huge fireball occuring on the lawn or roads.



Smell that coffee boys. 13 witness accounts disconnected from each other
all draw a similar path.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/techpaperAA77


In the picture above I see several paths that are counter to several other of your eyewitnesses accounts.
Turcois path (or rather the path that Craig told Turcois ) is identifiable as the closest one to the Citgo. It would make Morin's statement incorrect as he would not have been able to see the plane if the Turcois path is correct. There are several others that would make Morin in no position to have ever seen the plane and at least one that would do the same for Paik.
At least one of the paths on that diagram could only be performed by a helecopter, the one that makes the 45+ degree turn over the Annex.
Boger's description does not even seem to be included in that diagram as he said IIRC, it was over the Citgo. Although it is by no means certain that Boger could even see the station from where he was. (we know that no one at the Citgo could see the ATC building)

The FDR data does not conflict with the path described by the downed lamp posts. If PfT believes that to be true then a consise technical paper should be submitted to ICAO, the pilot's unions, the NTSB, the FAA and all and sundry publications concerned with flight safety.

There is not a single solitary witness that states that the aircraft they saw flew over the Pentagon (unless you count the twist-till-it-breaks spin that Craig et al put on one or two statements) and every single solitary witness who was in a position to make a determination about the path of the aircraft proximate to the Pentagon puts it as having impacted that structure.

If it paddles in water, quacks and has wings and feathers. Its not a platypus!
 
What freakin' part of ALL OF YOUR WITNESSES SAW THE PLANE HIT THE BUILDING don't you understand?

What freakin' part of the "big picture" and "entire official story" do you
not understand?

You just want to pick and choose what makes you happy?

So the light poles and damage path happened how with a North approach?

Selective Investigation...:rolleyes:
 
Ahem.

Turbofan: If you have this great new analysis that invalidates MacGyver's expertise, let's hear it. Put your cards and the table and stop this pointless bickering.
 
What freakin' part of the "big picture" and "entire official story" do you
not understand?

You just want to pick and choose what makes you happy?

So the light poles and damage path happened how with a North approach?

Selective Investigation...:rolleyes:
What "north approach"? Sure if your witnesses all agreed on an approach, maybe. Your problem is you can't put them all in the same room and have your story hold up. They would all work together, justify their stories and the plane would hit the poles and the building.
 
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When am I going to hear on the news that the courageous patriots of PfffffffT and CIT have proved that no plane hit the Pentagon by using the FDR found in the Pentagon and witnesses that say a plane hit the Pentagon?

So? When is this going to happen, Turbo? I assume that you want the rest of the world to know about the crime of the century. Or maybe your heroes, Capt. Bob and CIT are actually frauds?

If you think that the American media is part of the coverup, take your "evidence" to Al Jazeera or something. I am sure that they would love to have proof that the United States government faked AA77 crashing at the Pentagon.

So Turbo, what's going on? I am looking forward to hearing on the news about how you and your friends have proved that AA77 didn't hit the Pentagon. Why hasn't it happened yet?

So? Am I on ignore Turbofan?
 
Your problem is you can't put them all in the same room and have your story hold up.

No. That is YOUR problem. The fact they these witnesses are all disconnected
and STILL magically, somehow drew the same flight path is AMAZING.

Understand the odds and improbability of this.

D'Rok. Your answer has been posted within a page, or two prior to your
reply.

dtugg: Are you going to change your mind when the story hits the news?

:rolleyes:

Don't worry, we're working on getting the story out everyday. Keep
looking for the radio interviews and public speaking events as well.
 
dtugg: Are you going to change your mind when the story hits the news?

:rolleyes:

Don't worry, we're working on getting the story out everyday. Keep
looking for the radio interviews and public speaking events as well.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You're actually deluded enough to believe that your "research" is going to hit the news? Funny stuff. I love how the only actual news that covered your story was the complete trashing of your heroes.
 
Sorry D'rok, I thought I hit reply, but the site is too slow. Here it is again:

Turbofan: If you have this great new analysis that invalidates MacGyver's expertise, let's hear it. Put your cards and the table and stop this pointless bickering.


I'll wait for him to back up his statements with his real name instead of
a faceless account.

Until then, he has zero FDR experience and his theory no longer makes
sense based on these points:

- a transient on a data line, or address line cannot issue an erase
process

- EEPROM requires DC voltage over a sustained duration to reset
gates, as opposed to a few milliseconds of noise

- The gates require a minimum DC voltage to reset. As power decays
this voltage is no longer sufficient. Gates cannot be reset by impact
force, it's done electrically.

- The firmware determines which address lines are enabled and when
the write/erase occurs. It is an involved and complex set of instructions -
not a single 'switch' feature.
 

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