AA77 FDR Data, Explained

[uk_dave]

or any other live forum to explain yourself

Beachnut is under no obligation to explain anything to you. It's enough that he and others here are able to cast serious doubt upon the veracity of your analysis.

Currently I see no action being taken by p4t or any other 'truther' group which will change the world as we know it. Life goes on, with or without 'truthers'.

Start making a difference before demanding people debate you.

 

[tsig]

We don't have the actual FDR hardware. We have the data extracted from
the FDR memory.

Beachnut, when you learn how many times DME updates per second, you
might understand the data you are looking at and figure out the position
and altitude for yourself.

If you are too lazy to open up the file, have a look at any PFT video which
shows animated images while explaining the data within the file.

OK where did the hardware come from?

 

[beachnut]

If you are too lazy to open up the file, have a look at any PFT video which
shows animated images while explaining the data within the file.

Me? NO you are too lazy to answer questions! What is the problem, finding out you experts are paranoid government haters?

You can't tell me the update of the DME after you answered:
TWO
FOUR,
And now you go say I am lazy cause you can't figure out a simple question, becasue it is simple you said you got me beat on the FDR! Your words! You know all!

Answer the questions and stop calling me lazy when you are the one making the TWO second claim.

 

[Turbofan]

The problem is Beachnut CANNOT explain anything!

I mean it's black and white with DME. He thinks the frame data is showing
DME recording two difference values at the same time, yet the CSV file
shows the receivers alternating every two seconds.

And you can't see that either? Do you? If so, you still believe Beachnut is
more competent than me at interpreting the data?

This is the problem with most of the members on this forum.

 

[tsig]

The problem is Beachnut CANNOT explain anything!

I mean it's black and white with DME. He thinks the frame data is showing
DME recording two difference values at the same time, yet the CSV file
shows the receivers alternating every two seconds.

And you can't see that either? Do you? If so, you still believe Beachnut is
more competent than me at interpreting the data?

This is the problem with most of the members on this forum.

Where did the hardware that had the data come from?

 

[beachnut]

I don't need a theory because we have NTSB release data which shows AA77 didn't the poles.

That is a lie, the FDR shows 77 here at the second yellow dot as data STOPS. Which part about the poles are up ahead do you need help with! FAILED

The only data from the FDR shows 77 at the second yellow dot! Sorry NTSB shows 77 at a true track heading of 61.2 degrees and not at the Pentagon, the data stopped! Other aircraft have missing data, so does 77.

You are a pilot, and have no clue about networking, data transfer, or EPROM.

OOPS! Your EPROM stuff WAS FUNNY!
I am an electrical engineer with a masters degree; I worked as an engineer at Wright Aeronautical Laboratories on many interesting projects. I have worked in the same office with the guys who put a chip in a dog's brain. My professor in college was the co-inventor of the integrated circuit! I have programmed from assembly language to FORTRAN, BASIC, ADA, PASCAL and more. I studied chip fabrication. I build my own computers and run my own network. I worked with data transfer between the voice recognition system (VRS) and the flight data computer in a lab project. I programmed the main computer serial line to effect data collection from the VRS, in assembly language. I had to solve the timing problems and make sure all the data was cleared from the buffer. I guess I can learn more, but you are funny!

You have also shown you cannot read FDR data, or know the polling times of DME.

No you said TWO seconds, you were wrong! You changed to FOUR seconds, oops, you can't explain this data! I can read FDR data, you can't explain your own lies or errors! FAILED

Get educated. You have no business trying to explain flight data. It's no wonder you wont go on Hardfire, or any other live forum to explain yourself

You have nothing to argue, you have no theory or conclusion, you blindly follow the false information spewed by p4t, Capt Bob 11.2 g physics Failure.

OOPS, you do have a theory you said 77 did not hit the poles! FAILURE.

 

[beachnut]

The problem is Beachnut CANNOT explain anything!

I mean it's black and white with DME. He thinks the frame data is showing
DME recording two difference values at the same time, yet the CSV file
shows the receivers alternating every two seconds.

And you can't see that either? Do you? If so, you still believe Beachnut is
more competent than me at interpreting the data?

This is the problem with most of the members on this forum.

You are not able to answer question or comprehend what is going on.

I asked you to explain, with help from your experts at p4t to explain why your data has both DMEs repeated for the same time. I already know for years the DME on the NTSB data is presented each 4 seconds. I never said it was not.

You said it was updated TWO seconds, you were wrong.

You said it was updated every other TWO seconds! But you can't explain when 77 is heading 90 degrees for over 40 seconds headng toward DC, what the update rate of the DME is; based on your own data! The DME is updated every?

Got any answers? Or will you call me lazy again for being a few light years ahead of you, or at least I got your own p4t expert data! lol

 

[lapman]

I don't need a theory because we have NTSB release data which shows AA77 didn't the poles.

This has been shown to be false, again and again.

You are a pilot, and have no clue about networking, data transfer, or
EPROM.

I happen to be a private pilot AND I know networking, data transfer and EPROMS. It has been shown that you have zero knowledge of how any of these things work.

You have also shown you cannot read FDR data, or know the polling times
of DME.

He can't tell you that because the the DME is not polled.

Get educated. You have no business trying to explain flight data. It's no
wonder you wont go on Hardfire, or any other live forum to explain yourself

You should follow your own advice.

 

[jaydeehess]

I never claimed to be an expert, you all know my background.

I'll tell you one thing, I 've got you beat when it comes to FDR's and Flight
data acquisition systems.

You're the guy that thinks both DME receivers are stored at the same time
in FDR memory!

Jaydee, yes. PFT has submitted to L3. So now what?

Now you show us exactly what was submitted to L3.
I trust that it was more than a request for the specifications of the FDR in question?
I trust that it is a detailed technical description of how PfT arrives at the conclusion that L3's flight data recorder did not store data that matches the accepted flight path?
I trust that there are no accusations that either L3 or the NTSB is involved in a cover-up?

Now you tell us when this detailed technical explanation was sent to L3, was it sent to a specific person and what, if any, was L3's response.

ETA:
I see that TF states

the study was sent to L3.

As far as I'm aware, the press release stated several media sources, FBI,
NTSB, and members of parliament.

PFT did not receive a response for/against the study from L3.

The only contact I thought we had from L3 was the phone call and e-mail
correspondence.

We have seen the press release on the PfT site. If there is a new one then I'll look at it as well. However, no where in the press release I read is there a detailed technical description of how PfT arrives at its conclusions. I see a short summary of the conclusions instead.

I also see(bolds mine)

To date, they have refused to comment on, correct, refute, retract or offer side-letters that might explain the discrepancies between what they claim are the data extracted from the FDR of AA Flight 77 and the official story alleging its crash into the Pentagon.As concerned citizens and professionals in the aviation industry, Pilots for 9/11 Truth asks, why have these discrepancies not been addressed by agencies within the United States Government? Why have they falsely represented their own data to the American people?

One wonders how this vinegar was supposed to attract butterflies.

 

[tsig]

The problem is Beachnut CANNOT explain anything!

I mean it's black and white with DME. He thinks the frame data is showing
DME recording two difference values at the same time, yet the CSV file
shows the receivers alternating every two seconds.

And you can't see that either? Do you? If so, you still believe Beachnut is
more competent than me at interpreting the data?

This is the problem with most of the members on this forum.

Where did the hardware come from?

 

[Jonnyclueless]

I don't need a theory because we have NTSB release data which shows AA77
didn't the poles.

You are a pilot, and have no clue about networking, data transfer, or
EPROM.

You have also shown you cannot read FDR data, or know the polling times
of DME.

Get educated. You have no business trying to explain flight data. It's no
wonder you wont go on Hardfire, or any other live forum to explain yourself

Actually, the light poles show that your interpretation of the FDR is wrong.

And as for "just pilots", kinda puts a dent in "pilots for truth" eh? but I guess it is honest of you to admit that your group has no understanding of these things. But I wouldn't go so far as to say pilots for truth as a whole is uneducated, though I am sure most are uneducated.

Rob has had many times for debates and he constantly backs out. I think he lost his chance because everyone got tired of the little boy who cried wolf.

 

[Turbofan]

Me? NO you are too lazy to answer questions! What is the problem, finding out you experts are paranoid government haters?

You can't tell me the update of the DME after you answered:
TWO
FOUR,
And now you go say I am lazy cause you can't figure out a simple question, becasue it is simple you said you got me beat on the FDR! Your words! You know all!

Answer the questions and stop calling me lazy when you are the one making the TWO second claim.

I figured you still wouldn't understand. DME is updated every two seconds.
Period.

There are two receivers each updating at four second intervals. The DME
values alternate every TWO seconds...therefore you have an UPDATE every
TWO seconds.

If you had half a clue, you would see this in the CSV file!

It's easy to see you still don't understand beause you're asking questions
about why the frame data you linked from UnderTow shows a value holding
until the next data is available.

The frame data and CSV data are not laid out in the same format!

My friends, you are listening to Beachnut - a washed up wanna be, faceless pilot without
a clue!

 

[Turbofan]

Actually, the light poles show that your interpretation of the FDR is wrong.

And as for "just pilots", kinda puts a dent in "pilots for truth" eh? but I guess it is honest of you to admit that your group has no understanding of these things. But I wouldn't go so far as to say pilots for truth as a whole is uneducated, though I am sure most are uneducated.

Rob has had many times for debates and he constantly backs out. I think he lost his chance because everyone got tired of the little boy who cried wolf.

Make no mistake, the members at PFT have more than just pilot backgrounds.

If you kids would research for once, you would know this. Rob is a very
sharp man and has excellent resources at his disposal. The people involved
researching and studying the FDR data have all the necessary skills, unlike
the faceless cowards here.

Rob and PFT and myself have called out Anti, BeachNut, Pomeroo, ReHeat
and several others to debate.

Pomeroo is the only member that replies to Rob. The others are chicken.

PFT has never backed down, and never will. We invite you all to an open
discussion live.

We have e-mails, and recorded phone conversation contradicting your false
statement.

So , once again: Who has the balls and brain power to debate this FDR data
live? Let's set it up! We'll see who backs down

 

[Disbelief]

Rob and PFT and myself have called out Anti, BeachNut, Pomeroo, ReHeat
and several others to debate.

So , once again: Who has the balls and brain power to debate this FDR data
live? Let's set it up! We'll see who backs down

Once again, who gives a crap about debating? Is your goal just to win a debate or is it to bring people to justice? Take your information to journalists outside the US and quit trying to be a hero on an internet forum.

By the way, where did they find the FDR?

 

[Mr.Herbert]

Turbo,

Have you with all your infinite wisdom, figured out how they planted dead bodies still in their airplane seats?

I don't know much about FDR, but what I do know is that you and your parade of goons at PFFFT have failed to present ANY evidence to ANYONE.

Why pimp it here? Why sell DVD;s? Why sell Coffee Cups?

You got the info... get on with it woman. you and your girlfriends go take a ride to an attorneys office that will take the case.

 

[Turbofan]

Now you show us exactly what was submitted to L3.
I trust that it was more than a request for the specifications of the FDR in question?
I trust that it is a detailed technical description of how PfT arrives at the conclusion that L3's flight data recorder did not store data that matches the accepted flight path?
I trust that there are no accusations that either L3 or the NTSB is involved in a cover-up?

Now you tell us when this detailed technical explanation was sent to L3, was it sent to a specific person and what, if any, was L3's response.

I'll get that info for you. As far as I'm aware, it was a copy of the press
release and animation stating the errors found.

The following link provides details to PFT stance on the NTSB released data.
Opening comments and narrative should answer your question :
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?do...8Eqbg-gGi1syDDQ&q=flight+of+American+77&hl=en

We have seen the press release on the PfT site. If there is a new one then I'll look at it as well. However, no where in the press release I read is there a detailed technical description of how PfT arrives at its conclusions. I see a short summary of the conclusions instead.

The animation describes why PFT finds the data in error. Have you seen
the animation?

Jaydee, after all of these years don't you think it's time for the NTSB, or
whomever is responsible for correcting the 'working copy' to give the
public what they deserve?

You can't blame me, or the truth movement for questioning the data, and
inconsistent stories, and damage claims. It just doesn't add up.

We are not the people providing the data. We are finding the errors.
This is something government loyalists seem to forget.

Anyway, to prevent more circular discussion, let's keep this focused on
flight data, and the data acquisition systems.

 

[Turbofan]

Once again, who gives a crap about debating? Is your goal just to win a debate or is it to bring people to justice? Take your information to journalists outside the US and quit trying to be a hero on an internet forum.

By the way, where did they find the FDR?

Live debates expose your faceless 'experts'.

It also prevents random silly questions, and graphics of cartoons appearing.

WHo's backing down AGAIN? Are we going to do this interview, or do you
guys want to keep hiding and refusing to take responsiblity for your claims?

 

[Mr.Herbert]

What silly questions?

These:

Can you explain the DNA?

Can you explain the Aircraft debris?

Can you explain the eyewitnesses to the impact?

Can you explain how lightpoles were planted in the middle of the steet during rush hour traffic?

Can you explain why the government would plant a falsified FDR with innacurate data, when all they had to do was plant a destroyed one that was unreadable??

Can you explain the dead bodies still strapped in their seats?

Can you explain why Capt. Blob is sitting on his buttocks pimping merchandise when he should be taking his smoking guns to the authorities?

 

[Turbofan]

What silly questions?

These:

Can you explain the DNA?

Can you explain the Aircraft debris?

Can you explain the eyewitnesses to the impact?

Can you explain how lightpoles were planted in the middle of the steet during rush hour traffic?

Can you explain why the government would plant a falsified FDR with innacurate data, when all they had to do was plant a destroyed one that was unreadable??

Can you explain the dead bodies still strapped in their seats?

Can you explain why Capt. Blob is sitting on his buttocks pimping merchandise when he should be taking his smoking guns to the authorities?

^^^^ These silly questions! They have been addressed earlier in this
discussion and here they are AGAIN!

Get your "pros" and hereos on JREF to step up. If this was my team, I'd
be voting for a live debate to squash the opposition.

You know why they wont debate us? They can't even figure out how
DME works!

 

[applecorped]

^^^^ These silly questions! They have been addressed earlier in this
discussion and here they are AGAIN!

Get your "pros" and hereos on JREF to step up. If this was my team, I'd
be voting for a live debate to squash the opposition.

You know why they wont debate us? They can't even figure out how
DME works!

psssst! You're a JREFer.