AA77 FDR Data, Explained

[Jonnyclueless]

Email P4T for debate isntead of talknig out of your butt and hiding on JREF

Its clear even your most forfront "expert" cant even research the NTSB
Flight Path Study which calculates an imapct time. How do you people feel following such nonsense? Each time you post, you validate the work of PFT.

Keep it going

Jonny, PFT would have never expected 43 pages of argument, not to
mention numerous threads on the JREF tagged with "Rob Balsamo", JDX",
pilots for truth" from those people who think P4T is nuts

The fact that the self proclaimed anonymous "expert" JREFers refuse to
debate PFT, the fact that JREF mods ban PFT members constantly, speaks
volumes... but we got your number..

Lastly, I will only answer to Anti from this point forward, or anyone who
can explain my questions about Flash memory.

Hiding at JREF? Are you implying that the facts somehow change depending on what forum one discusses on? How about I say that you want to run and hide on the P4T forum? is that fair? Are you not even aware of all the ad homenim attacks you make to make up for a lack of a good argument?

No, JREF does not refuse to debate P4T. Here we are, come argue. You think just because people don't want to be bothered with signing up at a crackpot forum they are hiding? You're open to discuss all you want here. Don't humor ourself by claiming other people are afraid. It just shows you're a spineless coward who has to resort to these childish antics because you can't convince rational people like you can conspiracy nuts.

The Mods don't Ban people from being from P4T, they ban PEOPLE who break the rules and act out of line like you continue to do. Perhaps if the people at P4T would be able to have rational discussions without throwing tantrums and accusing everyone around them who doesn't agree with them as being idiots and throwing insults constantly, they wouldn't get banned. But instead you want rational people to go to your little forum where you can be as abusive as you want and don't care about having an adult conversation.

I am sorry that the higher standards of JREF are an inconvenience to you.

And lastly you focus on only the flash memory because if you don't ignore everything outside of the flash memory, then your whole argument is out the window. If you only focus on the flash memory then you can pretend everything else is working under ideal perfect and unrealistic conditions that throw your theory out the window.

So go on and continue to hurl insults about everyone being a non-expert while your entire group is non-experts and continue accusing everyone here of being blind when you systematically shut out all factors except for one so you can mislead yourself.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

I should also add that this is a classic CIT style case of using one of the weaker forms of evidence to dismiss all the stronger evidence. make the eprom infallible so as not to have to look at the rest of the evidence which actually proves it's fallible.

 

[R.Mackey]

What amazes me is how these guys don't understand WHY they are not taken seriously. And that they think they can make up for this by throwing out a bunch of empty rhetoric by accusing people of being paid by the government, being blind, not facing acts,etc.

What amazes me is just how obvious it should be. For instance, the issue of latency isn't refuted by the existence of timestamps at all, as he claimed a page or so back. The timestamps in fact are necessary because latencies exist. Had there been no latency, or a guaranteed write cycle, one could interpolate the signal time and not have to worry so much about compression.

Also, whatever data file the Pilots For Truth are working from is almost certainly processed to some degree. Again, I cannot say for certain, but I would be amazed if the FDR even had a file system.

I encourage you to seek information from other sources. Like I said, I haven't worked with FDRs specifically, but I have worked with air data sensors and aircraft buses, and they do indeed have latencies. The FDR is necessarily downstream of these systems, so it cannot possibly eliminate them. The impassioned arguments about how it "couldn't work" this way are transparently false to anyone who's ever heard of a FIFO buffer, which last I checked wasn't exactly secret technology.

Anyway, you have my opinion. Unless something new arrives I'm probably finished with this discussion.

ETA: I originally wrote "PFTers" but that's far too vulgar... my apologies to readers here.

 

[beachnut]

Because they are not the same scenario, or circumstance. See my post about regarding erasing single cell data, or a couple of seconds worth.

Many plane are missing FDR information. Please explain why 77 can't? The EPROM stuff was funny.

I don't answer them, because you don't make sense! Where in the data file do you see DME recorded at 1.5 and 3.2 during the same second?

Darn it is your data.

You do know that there are TWO receivers which are tuned, correct?

Oh, you are telling a pilot? Good for you.

You also know that each receiver is polled once every TWO seconds?

No, you have this wrong.

What the hell are you talking about in the bolded text?

He can't explain why p4t DME lists 1.5 DME and 3.2 DME at the same time. He hasn't yet explained why.
3.2 and 1.5 listed on the same time. I was just asking. It is easy to explain, you want me to explain it?

As for your x.0, x.2, etc. Do you understand that your six second 'lag' BS doesn't add up? Are you that mentally challenged? How can you associate a +/- .1 nm, or even 0.5 nm (if you must) with 6 seconds @ 500 MPH!?

Told you before the FDR is missing 5 to 6 seconds of data, if you want to say it was lag then fine. Could be for other reasons. Ask an aircraft accident investigator, you are ignoring this one; I have worked with FDR data and used it as evidence in a Class A accident. I think I was the board President.

You are certainly good at spreding lies. Ed Santana was not confirming anything with regard to the DME values. you are a liar, or not very good at reading.

spreding lies? I meant FDR, not DME. At least you have a FDR expert salesman p4t did a drive-by phone call with.

Do I need to call you tonight Keith? Get this on tape for the world to hear?

Are you really a stalker? I have a recording of Capt Bob not knowing what frequency the RADALT works at. You need it? I have a web page where Capt Rob does not know how many feet are in a NM. You need it? And of course most physics classes have a copy of http://pilotsfor911truth.org/descent_rate031308.html , this web page, as an example how a lack of physics can cause severe errors. 11.2 G! Need a copy of this page?

What is your theory and conclusions on 77 overall?

I forgot p4t have no theories or conclusions! Sorry world, p4t only sell implications of lies, they have no idea what it means when DME values are only stored as X.0, X.2, X.5, X.8. I guess when you skip Algebra, (except for those real smart guys like me looking for Alge), you might not have any idea what do with X. How can all the p4t be this math challenged?

 

[Jonnyclueless]

I asked several times before, but I don't think it was answered (happens a lot). Does the manufacturer of the FDR agree with the implications that PFT are making here?

 

[beachnut]

Actual Flash Memory used in AA77's FDR
FA2100 CSMU
2005.8 Intel 128 Mbit Strata Flash Memory, Intel Part Number TE28F128J3C-150 (3V)

What year was 77's FDR installed?
What year this chip was first released? TE28F128J3C-150 ?
What year did 77 first fly?

 

[Turbofan]

He can't explain why p4t DME lists 1.5 DME and 3.2 DME at the same time. He hasn't yet explained why.

3.2 and 1.5 listed on the same time.

BEACHNUT THINKS THE LEFT COLUMN IS A TIME STAMP!



This is one of your 'experts' LMAO

 

[WildCat]

Email P4T for debate isntead of talknig out of your butt and hiding on JREF

What would be the point of me, a non-expert in FDRs, debating the dolts at the Pfffft, none of whom are FDR experts themselves?

The proper people to be asking are actual FDR experts. None that I am aware of support the PfffffT, which is enough for me to think there is nothing to the PfffT claims.

Do you understand this Turbofan? Do you wonder why no actual FDR experts support the PfffT? Are they all in on the conspiracy? You keep avoiding this question for some reason...

 

[Turbofan]

What would be the point of me, a non-expert in FDRs, debating the dolts at the Pfffft, none of whom are FDR experts themselves?

The proper people to be asking are actual FDR experts. None that I am aware of support the PfffffT, which is enough for me to think there is nothing to the PfffT claims.

Do you understand this Turbofan? Do you wonder why no actual FDR experts support the PfffT? Are they all in on the conspiracy? You keep avoiding this question for some reason...

Do you understand Wildcat that NOBODY , ZERO, F-ALL of these FDR manufacturers and sensor manufacturers
support Anti-sophist, Beachnut, R. Macky, ReHeat, you , or anyone else
claiming data loss, or out of tolerance measurements?

As a matter of fact any of these manufacturers will stand behind their
products and that they meet/exceed spec.

So, please go away with your non technical garbage and cry to someone
else.

JREF , or anyone spewing BS in this thread has ZERO backing from Avionics
Developers.

Bye , bye Wildcat

 

[WildCat]

BEACHNUT THINKS THE LEFT COLUMN IS A TIME STAMP!

What do you think those numbers mean Turbofan?

Do you understand Wildcat that NOBODY , ZERO, F-ALL of these FDR manufacturers and sensor manufacturers
support Anti-sophist, Beachnut, R. Macky, ReHeat, you , or anyone else
claiming data loss, or out of tolerance measurements?

You really don't get it do you? No expert has to come forward to support any of us, it is you guys who are challenging the accepted course of events. It is up to you guys to convince the experts, and you have completely failed to get a single expert to agree with the dolts at PfffT. Boeing, American Airlines, the NTSB, and the FAA all agree that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon and that the FDR in question came from Flight 77.

As a matter of fact any of these manufacturers will stand behind their products and that they meet/exceed spec.

And yet none of them agree with the PffffT dolts, do they? Does Ed Santana agree with the findings of PffffT? Of course he doesn't, nor do any engineers or product developers from his company.

The fact remains that the only people who agree with the findings of PffffT are the members of PfffffT.

 

[Turbofan]

What do you think those numbers mean Turbofan?

Oh my god, I have to pee from all of this laughter.

You guys are killing me. It's no wonder you wont go live to debate us!

How can you debate FDR data if you don't even know what you're reading.

Just jump on the bandwagon huh?

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Do you understand Wildcat that NOBODY , ZERO, F-ALL of these FDR manufacturers and sensor manufacturers
support Anti-sophist, Beachnut, R. Macky, ReHeat, you , or anyone else
claiming data loss, or out of tolerance measurements?

As a matter of fact any of these manufacturers will stand behind their
products and that they meet/exceed spec.

So, please go away with your non technical garbage and cry to someone
else.

JREF , or anyone spewing BS in this thread has ZERO backing from Avionics
Developers.

Bye , bye Wildcat

So Turbo, you are saying that all the FDR manufacturers support your claims? I would like to see how they addressed this to you when they gave you their full support. Do you have any e-mails form the manufacturers where they verify they support your work?

 

[Jonnyclueless]

And Turbo, how many members of PFT are experts in the FDR field?

 

[WildCat]

How can you debate FDR data if you don't even know what you're reading.

And what is the criteria for determining what data goes in which row?

 

[Turbofan]

So Turbo, you are saying that all the FDR manufacturers support your claims? I would like to see how they addressed this to you when they gave you their full support. Do you have any e-mails form the manufacturers where they verify they support your work?

Are you serious? I thought we went over this?

Why would the manufacturer of the equipment agree/disagree with the
flight data?

We (PFT) are not the ones crying about data loss, and reading that are 400%
out of tolerance!

Do you ask your accountant to replace your dollar bill when it rips?

Do you cry to your cable company when your TV is broken?

Let's see...do you call up Good Year if you get a nail in your tire and it goes
flat?

Probably not huh? Just like we don't call L3, or Rockwell Collins when the
flight path doesn't make sense.

This is almost as funny as Beachnut thinking the MS Excel row counter is
a time stamp!

LMFAO!

 

[WildCat]

Are you serious? I thought we went over this?

Why would the manufacturer of the equipment agree/disagree with the
flight data?

So can you show us where the manufacturer supports the PffffT? Of course you can't, they think you guys are insane.

We (PFT) are not the ones crying about data loss, and reading that are 400%
out of tolerance!

No, you are the ones who aren't actually experts claiming you know more about it than Boeing, American Airlines, the NTSB, and the FAA.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Are you serious? I thought we went over this?

Why would the manufacturer of the equipment agree/disagree with the
flight data?

We (PFT) are not the ones crying about data loss, and reading that are 400%
out of tolerance!

Do you ask your accountant to replace your dollar bill when it rips?

Do you cry to your cable company when your TV is broken?

Let's see...do you call up Good Year if you get a nail in your tire and it goes
flat?

Probably not huh? Just like we don't call L3, or Rockwell Collins when the
flight path doesn't make sense.

This is almost as funny as Beachnut thinking the MS Excel row counter is
a time stamp!

LMFAO!

But you just said you had the support of the avionics developers and that JREF did not. And this isn't about the flight data, it's about how the FDR works and how data can be lost. You're claiming that no data could be lost and that you have the support of the avionics developers.

So basically you are lying. And you can't even get the people who make this stuff to agree with you? That's pretty sad. If I was in your position, I would get the support of the manufacturer to back you up. Why don't you do this? Why don't you get them to write a letter agreeing with your conclusions?

And then you go on your little idiotic tirad of how JREF has no experts. I ask again, what experts do you have over at PFT? Please just answer this question since the bulk of your arguments are how there are no experts here at JREF and how we're all hiding here form the brain trust over at PFT.


WHAT ARE THE EXPERT QUALIFICATIONS OF THE MEMBERS OF PFT?

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Oh and just to be clear, do you or do you not have the support of the manufacturer of the FDR? I am not asking you for a run around o how you think you do or don't need it.

DO YOU HAVE THE SUPPORT OF THE FDR MANUFACTURER FROM WHICH YOU BASE YOUR ARGUMENT. Yes or no?

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Oh and just to be clear, do you or do you not have the support of the manufacturer of the FDR? I am not asking you for a run around o how you think you do or don't need it.

DO YOU HAVE THE SUPPORT OF THE FDR MANUFACTURER FROM WHICH YOU BASE YOUR ARGUMENT. Yes or no?

 

[Turbofan]

Oh and just to be clear, do you or do you not have the support of the manufacturer of the FDR? I am not asking you for a run around o how you think you do or don't need it.

DO YOU HAVE THE SUPPORT OF THE FDR MANUFACTURER FROM WHICH YOU BASE YOUR ARGUMENT. Yes or no?

WHAT lost data?!

Show me where you think the data is lost and why?

We are not claiming data is lost, corrupt, lagged, delayed...or any sort of that
nonsense.

We have a phone call, and e-mail statement from L3 claiming the maximum
time allowed before sensor data reaches CPM. That's all we need.

There are also specifications and certifications listed on all of the Manufacturer
sites stating that their equipment meets/exceed the requirements set forth by
the Aviation Industry, and FAA.

You (JREF), have NOTHING.